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Boeing says it could end 747 production

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Boeing says it could end 747 production

Old 29th Jul 2016, 19:10
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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So many of you are living in the 1970's
The 747 in it's various forms has been on life support since 2001 when Airbus pulled the plug.
RIP & farewell, you had a good run in those good ol' days
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Old 29th Jul 2016, 20:02
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by oldchina View Post
The 747 in it's various forms has been on life support since 2001 when Airbus pulled the plug.
You'll have to explain that one.......
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Old 30th Jul 2016, 00:54
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Early 747 photos - WSJ July 27, 2016

Some good photos of the 747:

Photos: Early years of the Boeing 747 - WSJ
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Old 30th Jul 2016, 00:59
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Boeing Considers Ending Production of 747 - WSJ article July 27, 2016

From the Wall Street Journal, July 27, 2016:

Boeing Considers Ending Production of 747 - WSJ
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Old 30th Jul 2016, 02:33
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Anyone know what will happen to the two current Air Force Ones when the replacements are delivered?

I'm guessing they have pretty low cycles and are VERY well maintained.
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Old 30th Jul 2016, 03:05
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Anyone know what will happen to the two current Air Force Ones when the replacements are delivered?

The previous Air Force One aircraft have ended up in museums (there are several at the USAF Museum in Dayton, Ohio, one of the two 707s is at the Museum of Flight in Seattle).
I'd expect the current AF1 to have a similar fate.
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Old 30th Jul 2016, 03:21
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Anyone know what will happen to the two current Air Force Ones when the replacements are delivered?
You could save taxpayers' money and part it out for the four Air Force E-4B(747-200) Advanced Airborne Command Post.
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Old 30th Jul 2016, 04:13
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As far as I know VC-137C, SAM 26000 is at National Museum of the United States Air Force at Wright-Patterson AFB , VC-137C, SAM 27000 is in the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library.
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Old 30th Jul 2016, 07:10
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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You can twist it and turn it as many times as you want. You can build in a nose-door, a shower and a bar: The four-holers are doomed.

They certainly have a niche they fill nicely, but never enough numbers to make a production line and operation profitable.

Airbus is bleeding, Emirates is bleeding and Boeing bleeding with their four-holers and no spin can save them.
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Old 30th Jul 2016, 13:41
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Airbus is breaking even on the A380, Emirates is making loadsamoney and Boeing is bleeding. Passengers love the A380, the problem is that only a limited number of routes can justify it.
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Old 30th Jul 2016, 13:55
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Airbus is breaking even on the A380
.... that's probably why they discuss shutting down production ......

Emirates is making loadsamoney
.... that's probably why they want to hire the renowned crisis manager Christoph Mueller ....

and Boeing is bleeding
.... on the 748, yes, otherwise no ....

Passengers love the A380
.... yes, and they also loved the Concorde ....

the problem is that only a limited number of routes can justify it
.... now you're getting a tad closer ....

and Greece has a balanced budget
.... about as true as the first quote ....

Keep on dreaming of ancient times buddy!
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Old 31st Jul 2016, 08:07
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Airbus is pretty much resigned to the fact that the A380 project was a colossal loss of money. They could have seen it too, if they weren't collectively blinded by the desire to make something really big.
Emirates is making tons of cash. Last year, they cleared over $2 billion in profits. Of course, cheap fuel plays a role, and, with low oil prices, Dubai's losing a lot of businesses, so you can expect them to be hauling less Organic Californian Arugula underneath. Still, their close relationship with the government, which maintains a "business-friendly" (cough) economy, keeps costs down.
Passengers love the A380. They love it for a number of reasons. It's quiet, for example. Not just because of quieter engines and better soundproofing, but also because there's fewer people sitting in those seats. No passenger ever said "It was great, the plane was completely full!"

With the 748 on its way out, and the 777X sounding increasingly like the MD-11 of this generation, Boeing's going to need a new large twin.
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Old 31st Jul 2016, 08:34
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their accountants reckon they're breaking even on the A.380

Mr B has a long way to go on the 787 and will never make it on the KC-46 but I expect all 3 will continue in production because, TBH , there's always the cash flow now the development costs are written off and few senior managers have been fired..................
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Old 31st Jul 2016, 10:39
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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They're breaking even in the sense that each Skytanic™ they build costs them about what they're selling it for, before taking into consideration development costs.
In other words it was a loss of money; it's not losing money any more.
The 787 is still losing money at a dizzying rate. It turns out supply-line outsourcing trades a minor saving in measurable costs for immeasurably huge costs. Mr. B could have known that if he looked at what was happening with to the A380 in development, but I guess he was too busy playing golf with CEOs in Chicago and got burned.
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Old 31st Jul 2016, 14:11
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Confusio, on which routes are fewer passengers sitting in A380 seats? Certainly not on Emirates UK routes, or are you just confused?
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Old 1st Aug 2016, 00:30
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Well all you boring old lot can talk like accountants for all you're worth. I know it's financially doomed. That's accountants stuff and I'll let the accountants on accountant forums talk about that.

But I'm a pilot. And as a pilot, quite simply the 747 was the most glorious, iconic drop dead gorgeous aircraft I've ever flown. It will always be a film star.

Like the spit, mustang, Lanc and Concorde, it's the one aircraft the public knew the name and shape of, and it was a mighty mighty beast. a true air - liner.

I don't ever see an A380/787/350 pilot getting the same "thing", despite the press trying to steal the moniker to the a380 as the "jumbo", the public will always be clueless. The world will have airline pilots who flew the jumbo and those that wished they'd had a chance at the bird. And I'm glad by luck more than my old skill I did have that chance :-)
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Old 1st Aug 2016, 01:54
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Anyone know what will happen to the two current Air Force Ones when the replacements are delivered?
After retirement, SAM 28000 and 29000 will most likely end up at a Presidential Library or Air Force Museum. Possibly one could get a spot at the Udvar-Hazy Air and Space Annex located west of the Capital and just south of Dulles Airport.
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Old 1st Aug 2016, 04:22
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Confusio, on which routes are fewer passengers sitting in A380 seats? Certainly not on Emirates UK routes, or are you just confused?
Last time I was a non rev on an EK 380 it had 150 seats available.
Last time I was a non rev on an EK 777 the whole economy centre section was empty.
Two flights are in no way representative, but EK flies to other places than UK.
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Old 2nd Aug 2016, 13:45
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I see Boeing still have to recoop $31 Bn on the 787 - they're planning to spread it over the next 900 airframes to reach break even - they've sold around 750 so far

Fingers crossed there is no down-turn............
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Old 2nd Aug 2016, 14:19
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Well, we could all agree that someone had to create a full on double decker one day and they did. Has it been a success like the 747 in its time? No. Will we see more orders of the aircraft in the future? Yes but not at the 747's rate. Why? Learn from history. When the 747 first came out, Boeing was about to scrap the whole thing altogether before the boom of 747 cargo and flight ops to come.

I feel Airbus needs a NEO a380 and make the plane more efficient AND add more pax/cargo load. A huge stretch but unless this happens even EK will bow out future orders.

Speaking of stretch, Boeing doesn't need to worry about continuing its 747 program or compete with the A380 at all, they have the best twin in the 777X coming up. Make a stretch and worse comes to worse you'll lose the odd 50-100 orders the a380 will get if you don't make a 4 engine.

I heard Boeing will end the 737 program after the MAX (might be another decade and some), most likely Airbus will as well with the a320 then. It feels like the a310/757 will make a comeback and i wouldn't be surprised if after 10 years, we see Boeing announce a new air-frame 737/757 variant and Airbus the same with their a320/a321.

The market so far has been 737/787/777 and /a320/a321a350...sooner or later the airlines would want a stretch/efficient a321/757 to give added range and a more capacity to airlines who don't need a 777/a350 but want something more than a 737/a320.

All in all, its a great time in the industry looking ahead!
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