Pilots threaten to strike over fatigue concerns - Telegraph
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Pilots threaten to strike over fatigue concerns - Telegraph
Pilots threaten to strike over fatigue concerns - Daily Telegraph
What is the assessment of the new BALPA guy? Would he take a dispute all the way to strike action?
Some airlines are fatiguing pilots by forcing them to work for 20 hours without an adequate break, sparking concerns about safety and raising the prospect of strike action towards the end of the summer holidays, the pilots’ union has warned.
Brian Strutton, the new general secretary of the British Airline Pilots’ Association (BAPLA), said that employees at one major, unidentified carrier are considering industrial action over the issue which, if approved, would take disrupt flights in September. He claimed new flight time rules introduced by the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) in February had made it easier for airlines to force pilots to fly for longer and that “some real horror stories being reported to us”.
Mr Strutton, who took over as head of the union earlier this month, said it had compiled “really worrying stats” that raised broader concerns about safety. Some pilots are working for 20 hours with no time for rest breaks between flight turnarounds, the BALPA head claimed.
"We’ve just done a survey and a touch under half of pilots have told us that they’ve been compromised by fatigue at least once a month this year,” he said. “And by compromised, it’s a polite way of saying dropping off or losing concentration at the controls.”
Brian Strutton, the new general secretary of the British Airline Pilots’ Association (BAPLA), said that employees at one major, unidentified carrier are considering industrial action over the issue which, if approved, would take disrupt flights in September. He claimed new flight time rules introduced by the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) in February had made it easier for airlines to force pilots to fly for longer and that “some real horror stories being reported to us”.
Mr Strutton, who took over as head of the union earlier this month, said it had compiled “really worrying stats” that raised broader concerns about safety. Some pilots are working for 20 hours with no time for rest breaks between flight turnarounds, the BALPA head claimed.
"We’ve just done a survey and a touch under half of pilots have told us that they’ve been compromised by fatigue at least once a month this year,” he said. “And by compromised, it’s a polite way of saying dropping off or losing concentration at the controls.”
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20 hours FDP wiithout a break - not possible .
Maybe possible standby plus FDP but that was possible under cap371
Maybe awake time
And fatigue once a month he means sleepiness e.g the need go sleep
Slightly different meaning
Maybe possible standby plus FDP but that was possible under cap371
Maybe awake time
And fatigue once a month he means sleepiness e.g the need go sleep
Slightly different meaning
Last edited by Mr Angry from Purley; 1st Jul 2016 at 19:03. Reason: Plus more
Mr Angry, your first assertion, though doubtless correct in itself is rendered irrelevant and misleading by your removal of the of the word "adequate" from the original statement.
How facts are skewed! Are you a journo or sump'n?
How facts are skewed! Are you a journo or sump'n?
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Mr Angry , when was the last time you operated 108 block short haul hours in a month , they comprised multi sector (up to 6 ) days into some of the worlds busiest airspace and airports with the odd deep night to a black hole Greek island thrown in .
Oh and there were 490 sectors in the past 12 months and 800 hours.
Be pleased to hear how you avoid fatigue when you do it ?
Oh and there were 490 sectors in the past 12 months and 800 hours.
Be pleased to hear how you avoid fatigue when you do it ?
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20 hours without an adequate break then. I still can't work out the maths sorry chaps
Nil further I don't doubt the numbers I was highlighting there is a subtle difference between fatigue and sleepiness .
Nil further I don't doubt the numbers I was highlighting there is a subtle difference between fatigue and sleepiness .
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What is the assessment of the new BALPA guy? Would he take a dispute all the way to strike action?
I was highlighting there is a subtle difference between fatigue and sleepiness .
Science is in it's infancy regarding the brain/ sleep/ fatigue. I don't think you can highlight something that ten different specialists in the field will argue ten different angles on.
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ten different specialists in the field will argue ten different angles on.
Sounds like a bar full of pilots. Surely the only person who can assess the condition accurately is the individual affected. Knackered is knackered. Each knows their own capabilities and limitations, not a bunch of 'experts'. It can not be measured; there is no plug in machine; no series of tests; no datum for that individual to assess against. It is subjective, opinionated and up to the individual. If someone was strong-armed it would make an interesting court case. Although there was a RYR case, a few years ago I believe, where refusal to fly an extra sector brought on dismissal. What was the outcome?
Sounds like a bar full of pilots. Surely the only person who can assess the condition accurately is the individual affected. Knackered is knackered. Each knows their own capabilities and limitations, not a bunch of 'experts'. It can not be measured; there is no plug in machine; no series of tests; no datum for that individual to assess against. It is subjective, opinionated and up to the individual. If someone was strong-armed it would make an interesting court case. Although there was a RYR case, a few years ago I believe, where refusal to fly an extra sector brought on dismissal. What was the outcome?
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Can I suggest you avoid terms, as feeling sleepy if you contact crewing.
I am unable to do this duty due to fatigue,would be more apt and avoid the phone ringing off the hook from the duty pilot.
If a duty is fatiguing ,then put in an MOR about it.They can't ignore all of them.
I am unable to do this duty due to fatigue,would be more apt and avoid the phone ringing off the hook from the duty pilot.
If a duty is fatiguing ,then put in an MOR about it.They can't ignore all of them.
Apu inop, there is lots of stuff here:
https://www.eurocockpit.be/pages/fli...me-limitations
Basically , companies can now roster long flights ,Cyprus rotation, early in the morning and it is only after a lot of fatigue reports that the schedule will be altered. Some companies seem to be using fatigue limits as a rostering target.
https://www.eurocockpit.be/pages/fli...me-limitations
Basically , companies can now roster long flights ,Cyprus rotation, early in the morning and it is only after a lot of fatigue reports that the schedule will be altered. Some companies seem to be using fatigue limits as a rostering target.
What fatigue are we talking about?
I recently did over 40 hours duty in three days, and it scored a 1/5 fatigue grading.
Proof I was not fatigued - stamped and airline official.
Come, come.
I recently did over 40 hours duty in three days, and it scored a 1/5 fatigue grading.
Proof I was not fatigued - stamped and airline official.
Come, come.
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APU more stuff here as well.
www.understandingeasa2016ftl.wordpress.com/
www.understandingeasa2016ftl.wordpress.com/
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Don't worry; I have mates in one LoCo who were informed by medical experts in NASA that they could not be fatigued, but were too knackered to watch the whole video & read the full report. Strange times.
There is a big difference between fatigue and tiredness (sleepiness). Fatigue is longterm and is health related whereas tiredness may only last for one duty - granted the consequences may be the same. For whatever reason if you are not fit don't fly; that is your responsibility.
Tiredness is also often self induced or at least under an individual's control. It is up to everyone to take personal responsibility for their rest; you should know what hours and lifestyle the job entailed before you started; if you are not suited you shouldn't have become a commercial pilot.
I'm not belittling fatigue, it is a serious issue and should be tackled as such but I've seen too many use it as a scapegoat for their own irresponsible behaviour. If fatigue is not believed it will not be addressed by the companies or the industry. Comments such as the one in the lead article 'Some airlines are fatiguing pilots by forcing them to work for 20 hours without an adequate break' is not correct and consequently will deminish this serious safety issue.
Tiredness is also often self induced or at least under an individual's control. It is up to everyone to take personal responsibility for their rest; you should know what hours and lifestyle the job entailed before you started; if you are not suited you shouldn't have become a commercial pilot.
I'm not belittling fatigue, it is a serious issue and should be tackled as such but I've seen too many use it as a scapegoat for their own irresponsible behaviour. If fatigue is not believed it will not be addressed by the companies or the industry. Comments such as the one in the lead article 'Some airlines are fatiguing pilots by forcing them to work for 20 hours without an adequate break' is not correct and consequently will deminish this serious safety issue.
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Why is there still pride in being able to perform whilst being fatigued? Oh Doctors! Thou are so vain glorious! Errors become you..
Last edited by evansb; 6th Jul 2016 at 08:55.
