Did Delta pilots fall asleep over Greece?
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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Did Delta pilots fall asleep over Greece?
Join Date: Jan 2007
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I remember as a new first officer 30 years ago returning from a Greek island in the wee hours asking the Capt if I could have a 10 minute nap.
I was woken about 20 mins later by his snoring.
It wasn`t a problem in those days.
Later as Capt, I made sure we agreed who was to stay awake ( he/she would keep there r/t volume turned up) and set some sort of alarm as a back up.
I was woken about 20 mins later by his snoring.
It wasn`t a problem in those days.
Later as Capt, I made sure we agreed who was to stay awake ( he/she would keep there r/t volume turned up) and set some sort of alarm as a back up.
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What happened to the 20min check from cabin crew, or is that only a European thing?
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Some issues with this article. As pointed out, delta doesn't fly that route. It was in fact a DOD charter from Hahn to kuwait. Second, sensational reporting aside, according to other sources the 764 was transitioning to the Greek fir and was not in contact with them for about 10 minutes when the decision was made to scramble an intercept. Coming so soon after the disappearance of the Egyptian plane perhaps a bit more sensitive than on other days?
I don't know for sure what happened but the cited article is definitely not full of facts!
I don't know for sure what happened but the cited article is definitely not full of facts!
A Delta Airlines spokesman said: "While transiting to Greek airspace, the flight crew of Delta flight 8957, a charter operation from Hahn, Germany to Kuwait, was unable to establish radio communications with Greek air traffic control for a short period.
"This occurred during a handoff between air traffic control agencies and communications were expeditiously reestablished.
"At no point did the Boeing 767-400ER leave its planned route of flight."
"This occurred during a handoff between air traffic control agencies and communications were expeditiously reestablished.
"At no point did the Boeing 767-400ER leave its planned route of flight."
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Well, regulation or not, every single company I've worked for have used a 20 min rule for cc to check on flight deck. Then there's of course times when cc are busier and it's hard to get a check done.
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All this could be quit simple.
An "alarm" that quietly (not silent) would require a pilot to provide an input of any sort every x minutes which could include a "snooze".
If nothing in a minute later it could become progressively louder.
This could not possibly interfere with flight operation even in an emergency or other critical moments when flight crew provides very frequent inputs anyway.
Is it too much to ask that either of two awake pilots at cruise altitude while on auto pilot are asked to do "something" every x minutes?
An "alarm" that quietly (not silent) would require a pilot to provide an input of any sort every x minutes which could include a "snooze".
If nothing in a minute later it could become progressively louder.
This could not possibly interfere with flight operation even in an emergency or other critical moments when flight crew provides very frequent inputs anyway.
Is it too much to ask that either of two awake pilots at cruise altitude while on auto pilot are asked to do "something" every x minutes?
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Maybe better to do something about the rostering/fatigue issues in the first place. Waking up sleepy pilots is fine, but they shouldn't be so tired they are both falling asleep mid flight.
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It wasn't a problem in those days.
Next lunchtime, before the 3pm (ish) departure back to LON, we were in Ye Olde Kings Head drinking and playing darts etc., both cabin crew and one of the pilots, I was cockpit jumpseating it on the return leg, the Flight Engineer checked me out on his panel before he buggered off to the downstairs galley for a nap, the Captain announced that he was to take a nap however the First Officer, having been drinking, conked out also.
There I was, an off duty Ops guy, in command of a wide-body jet!
It wasn't a problem in those days
In the eighties, on a ship with Engine Room Class E1, one man on duty ,we had buttons that needed to be pressed every 20 mins. If not Bridge would send a watchman to see if we were alive. Problem solved.
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Hahn- Greece is not that far. Quick to nap with so many FIR ATC hand overs. It's not such a soporific route, especially if you are not familiar with it. Perhaps there is more to this than reported in such simple terms?
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All this could be quit simple.
An "alarm" that quietly (not silent) would require a pilot to provide an input of any sort every x minutes which could include a "snooze".
If nothing in a minute later it could become progressively louder.
This could not possibly interfere with flight operation even in an emergency or other critical moments when flight crew provides very frequent inputs anyway.
Is it too much to ask that either of two awake pilots at cruise altitude while on auto pilot are asked to do "something" every x minutes?
An "alarm" that quietly (not silent) would require a pilot to provide an input of any sort every x minutes which could include a "snooze".
If nothing in a minute later it could become progressively louder.
This could not possibly interfere with flight operation even in an emergency or other critical moments when flight crew provides very frequent inputs anyway.
Is it too much to ask that either of two awake pilots at cruise altitude while on auto pilot are asked to do "something" every x minutes?
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They wouldn't need to be asleep for this to happen, just unfamiliar with the area. International ATC coordination in that part of the world leaves a lot to be desired, and if 121.5 is turned down due to excessive chatter, ATC might not be there to hand you off to the next frequency at the FIR. Let's not jump to conclusions.
