EgyptAir 804 disappears from radar Paris-Cairo
100,000 odd aircraft that are in the skies each day.
Odd that the airlines can offer internet to all on board (free in some cases) but there isn't enough economical bandwidth for streaming FDR...
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Cap Bloggs, my figure of 100,000 refers the number of flights each day and was a bit misleading in context. Cost of Internet over SATCOM was covered, however.
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The important figure is of course the number of qualifying airframes and the length of time each of those qualifying airframes are airborne outside of line-of-sight of VHF/VDL receivers. So if only airframes capable of carrying more than say 30 pax that were outside line-of-sight of VDL receivers were included the required bandwidth would be a lot less. This is still possibly too expensive with the current bandwidths and comms, but I suspect that within a few years that will no longer be the case as bandwidths and capacity are increasing all the time.
A more difficult engineering issue is how to maintain a satcom link from an aircraft that has electrics problems or is in unusual positions due to loss of control. Those requirements would seem to rule out use of geostationary satellites and indicate what would be needed would be a connection oriented 'always on' link with low power requirements with one or more omnidirectional antennae on the aircraft.
A more difficult engineering issue is how to maintain a satcom link from an aircraft that has electrics problems or is in unusual positions due to loss of control. Those requirements would seem to rule out use of geostationary satellites and indicate what would be needed would be a connection oriented 'always on' link with low power requirements with one or more omnidirectional antennae on the aircraft.
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The official Egyptian announcement - from around 2055 hrs Pprune time:
John Lethbridge; the vessel contracted by the Egyptian government to join the search efforts for the data recorders and the wreckage of the doomed A320; had identified several main locations of the wreckage, accordingly the first images of the wreckage were provided to the investigation committee. Based on the wreckage locations; The search team and investigators onboard of the vessel will draw a map for the wreckage distribution spots. Immediately a meeting was held between the investigation committee members to study thoroughly the progressive actions taken during the past period and in order to plan how to best handle the wreckage in the coming period. It is worth mentioning that the debris retrieved earlier are still in possession of the forensic evidences under supervision of the criminal prosecution; to carry out standard procedures then it will be handed to the technical investigation committee after concluding such procedures.
John Lethbridge; the vessel contracted by the Egyptian government to join the search efforts for the data recorders and the wreckage of the doomed A320; had identified several main locations of the wreckage, accordingly the first images of the wreckage were provided to the investigation committee. Based on the wreckage locations; The search team and investigators onboard of the vessel will draw a map for the wreckage distribution spots. Immediately a meeting was held between the investigation committee members to study thoroughly the progressive actions taken during the past period and in order to plan how to best handle the wreckage in the coming period. It is worth mentioning that the debris retrieved earlier are still in possession of the forensic evidences under supervision of the criminal prosecution; to carry out standard procedures then it will be handed to the technical investigation committee after concluding such procedures.
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Crete is 160ml long by 38ml wide so that debris patch centre looks to ey approximatley 55ml from LKP and in a direction that gives credence to the Greek radar report diag in post 133
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After earlier Egyptian denial, Greek (and British, from Cyprus) radar corroborated
Egyptian Civil Aviation authorities' statement:
"The Egyptian Armed Forces Investigation Committee received Radar images of the A320 route before its crash; which identified that the aircraft swerved to the left then turned right for a full circle. This comes in accordance with the British and Greek radar images"
http://www.civilaviation.gov.eg/News...s_14_6_16.html
"The Egyptian Armed Forces Investigation Committee received Radar images of the A320 route before its crash; which identified that the aircraft swerved to the left then turned right for a full circle. This comes in accordance with the British and Greek radar images"
http://www.civilaviation.gov.eg/News...s_14_6_16.html
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Just to put a dot on an 'i' and for future discussions and calculations :-)
The find of the wreck was published yesterday. Which was June 15th and Day 28. Close to the 30 days.
Suitably equipped detection ships sail at approximately 10-12 knots and may require a port visit before proceeding to the area.
The BBC quotes 'experts' who say that the box pingers were expected to stop at the 24th of June. Which would have been Day 37.
The find of the wreck was published yesterday. Which was June 15th and Day 28. Close to the 30 days.
Suitably equipped detection ships sail at approximately 10-12 knots and may require a port visit before proceeding to the area.
The BBC quotes 'experts' who say that the box pingers were expected to stop at the 24th of June. Which would have been Day 37.
I am a little uncertain about the details. Did the location come from the reception of the FDR signal, or from other search/detection means?
The link from Dr Bru is dated 13 Jun, but maybe that is Google translate having trouble with Arabic, since search is rendered suche and it was really 15 June.
Well done to those folks for their efforts! 
The link from Dr Bru is dated 13 Jun, but maybe that is Google translate having trouble with Arabic, since search is rendered suche and it was really 15 June.
It is worth mentioning that Suche{sic} vessel "La Place" and the Suche{sic} and retrieval vessel "JOHN LETHBRIDGE"; are carrying out their mission at the wreckage designated area.
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Cockpit voice recorder found, reports the BBC.
No details, but this link should update as more information emerges.
EgyptAir plane's voice recorder found - BBC News
No details, but this link should update as more information emerges.
EgyptAir plane's voice recorder found - BBC News
CVR Found - Damaged
From CNN:
Seems like some quick work.
The cockpit voice recorder from EgyptAir Flight 804 has been found damaged, the Egyptian investigative committee said Thursday in a statement. The memory unit "which is the most important part of the recorder" was retrieved, the statement said.
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InvestigationProgress Report (9) by the Egyptian Aircraft Accident Investigation Committee
Cairo,16th of June 2016
John Lethbridge, the vessel contracted by the Egyptian Govt; to join the search for the wreckage of the A320 that was downed in the Mediterranean last month; had found the CVR. The CVR was retrieved in several stages as it was damaged but the vessel equipment managed to pick up the memory unit; which is considered as the most important part of the above-mentioned recorder. The General Prosecution was then notified and accordingly issued its decision to hand it over to the technical investigation committee to carry out analysis and unload the voice conversations. Transfer process of the CVR from the vessel to Alexandria is under process then it will be received by members from the general prosecution and the investigation committee.
(Note: A0283 - text unchanged apart from shortening to CVR - what they probably mean is that the CVR was in 3-4 pieces ('tray', 'power', memory module component, 'pinger') and that they have recovered the component containing the memory module. If the damage is not too much then they will read it in Cairo, if too much then the module will be sent to the manufacturer of the CVR.)
Cairo,16th of June 2016
John Lethbridge, the vessel contracted by the Egyptian Govt; to join the search for the wreckage of the A320 that was downed in the Mediterranean last month; had found the CVR. The CVR was retrieved in several stages as it was damaged but the vessel equipment managed to pick up the memory unit; which is considered as the most important part of the above-mentioned recorder. The General Prosecution was then notified and accordingly issued its decision to hand it over to the technical investigation committee to carry out analysis and unload the voice conversations. Transfer process of the CVR from the vessel to Alexandria is under process then it will be received by members from the general prosecution and the investigation committee.
(Note: A0283 - text unchanged apart from shortening to CVR - what they probably mean is that the CVR was in 3-4 pieces ('tray', 'power', memory module component, 'pinger') and that they have recovered the component containing the memory module. If the damage is not too much then they will read it in Cairo, if too much then the module will be sent to the manufacturer of the CVR.)
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CVR Damaged?
Will not be known until unit examined, unless there is obvious visual damage such as protective case disintegration or crushing beyond tolerances.
Here are the crashworthiness standards required, may be old but any revisions would be of higher tolerances.
» an impact producing a 3,400-g deceleration for 6.5 milliseconds (equivalent to an impact velocity of 270 knots and a deceleration or crushing distance of 45 cm)
» a penetration force produced by a 227 kilograms (500 pounds) weight which is dropped from a height of 3 metres (10 feet)
» a static crush force of 22.25 kN (5,000 pounds) applied continuously for five minutes
» a fire of 1,100 degrees Celsius for 60 minutes.
The Germanwings A320 hit mountainous terrain at 370 kts and the CVR, despite sustaining damage was still readable.
Will not be known until unit examined, unless there is obvious visual damage such as protective case disintegration or crushing beyond tolerances.
Here are the crashworthiness standards required, may be old but any revisions would be of higher tolerances.
» an impact producing a 3,400-g deceleration for 6.5 milliseconds (equivalent to an impact velocity of 270 knots and a deceleration or crushing distance of 45 cm)
» a penetration force produced by a 227 kilograms (500 pounds) weight which is dropped from a height of 3 metres (10 feet)
» a static crush force of 22.25 kN (5,000 pounds) applied continuously for five minutes
» a fire of 1,100 degrees Celsius for 60 minutes.
The Germanwings A320 hit mountainous terrain at 370 kts and the CVR, despite sustaining damage was still readable.
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French BEA communiqué today: CVR retrieved, BEA inspector dispatched to Cairo
BEA is announcing that one of their inspectors is moving to Cairo on 17 June to bring in BEA's expertise in the reading out of the CVR.
"Accident de l'Airbus A320, immatriculé SU-GCC et exploité par Egyptair, survenu le 19/05/2016 au large des côtes égyptiennes [Enquête menée par AIB / Egypte] - information du 16/06/2016 16H30
Les autorités égyptiennes ont publié le 16/06/16 un point de situation indiquant la découverte et la remontée de l'enregistreur de vol phonique (CVR - Cockpit Voice Recorder). Un enquêteur du BEA se rendra au Caire le 17/06/16 afin d'apporter notre expertise technique à la lecture de l'enregistreur.
Point de situation n° 9 publié par les autorités égyptiennes :
"Cairo, 16th of June 2016
John Lethbridge, the vessel contracted by the Egyptian Government; to join the search for the wreckage of the A320 that was downed in the Mediterranean last month; had found the Cockpit voice recorder.
The Cockpit voice recorder was retrieved in several stages as it was damaged but the vessel equipment managed to pick up the memory unit; which is considered as the most important part of the above-mentioned recorder.
The General prosecution was then notified and accordingly issued its decision to hand it over to the technical investigation committee to carry out analysis and unload the voice conversations.
Transfer process of the Cockpit voice recorder from the vessel to Alexandria is under process then it will be received by members from the general prosecution and the investigation committee.""
https://www.bea.aero/index.php?id=11...communique=278
"Accident de l'Airbus A320, immatriculé SU-GCC et exploité par Egyptair, survenu le 19/05/2016 au large des côtes égyptiennes [Enquête menée par AIB / Egypte] - information du 16/06/2016 16H30
Les autorités égyptiennes ont publié le 16/06/16 un point de situation indiquant la découverte et la remontée de l'enregistreur de vol phonique (CVR - Cockpit Voice Recorder). Un enquêteur du BEA se rendra au Caire le 17/06/16 afin d'apporter notre expertise technique à la lecture de l'enregistreur.
Point de situation n° 9 publié par les autorités égyptiennes :
"Cairo, 16th of June 2016
John Lethbridge, the vessel contracted by the Egyptian Government; to join the search for the wreckage of the A320 that was downed in the Mediterranean last month; had found the Cockpit voice recorder.
The Cockpit voice recorder was retrieved in several stages as it was damaged but the vessel equipment managed to pick up the memory unit; which is considered as the most important part of the above-mentioned recorder.
The General prosecution was then notified and accordingly issued its decision to hand it over to the technical investigation committee to carry out analysis and unload the voice conversations.
Transfer process of the Cockpit voice recorder from the vessel to Alexandria is under process then it will be received by members from the general prosecution and the investigation committee.""
https://www.bea.aero/index.php?id=11...communique=278
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