EgyptAir 804 disappears from radar Paris-Cairo
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Not sure it matters, anyhow. If the smoke is so bad you can't see the instruments, what are the odds of finding/opening a hatch, much less of doing anything meaningful once you've accessed the area? And I would imagine the pilot's oxygen mask wouldn't reach that far.
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Not one to usually comment but as someone who works on this type I'm seeing lots of engineering related mistruths and false info being posted. But I suppose on a plus side I've now learnt that we've been doing it wrong all these years on the 320. I no longer need a stepladder to externally access the avionic bay as there's a secret hidden access door inside the aircraft.
Last edited by orangelitebulbtech; 24th May 2016 at 07:01.
Great reply orange. Far more mis-information on these pages than factual info. Perhaps it should be renamed the Daily Mail rumour network!
THERE IS NO ACCESS TO E&E Bay inside an A320 series. Only on wide bodies. External access could do with ECAM ALERT to advise crew if it's opened on turnaround. In fact all lower doors would be ideal for me.
THERE IS NO ACCESS TO E&E Bay inside an A320 series. Only on wide bodies. External access could do with ECAM ALERT to advise crew if it's opened on turnaround. In fact all lower doors would be ideal for me.
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And I note that this morning the UK national newspapers are saying that there were no turns left and right before the aircraft disappeared. So another piece of the puzzle has just been taken off the table - the autopilot may still have been in control.
A long way back on this thread someone mentioned that these 'turns' may have been a misinterpretation of radar returns of sections of a broken aircraft falling in different directions.
A long way back on this thread someone mentioned that these 'turns' may have been a misinterpretation of radar returns of sections of a broken aircraft falling in different directions.
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Semreh is correct about the early A320 Avionic access from the cabin, he is also correct about fluid leakage.
The first time I encountered problems with Kapton wiring was on a very new ( & very early ) A320 when a spilled drink on the carpet above the forward cargo hold leaked into a loom break connector and resulted in a mini fire in the loom that effected multiple systems including opening both the cabin outflow valve, the cabin safety valve and discharging an engine Fire extinguisher.
Go easyI think a little less shouting and a little more listening would be a good idea, just because you have not seen an Avionic bay hatch in the cabin it does not mean it was not fitted to some aircraft, Things change as aircraft evolve and having worked the aircraft from its first delivery into airline service I can tell you a lot has changed over the years.
The first time I encountered problems with Kapton wiring was on a very new ( & very early ) A320 when a spilled drink on the carpet above the forward cargo hold leaked into a loom break connector and resulted in a mini fire in the loom that effected multiple systems including opening both the cabin outflow valve, the cabin safety valve and discharging an engine Fire extinguisher.
Go easyI think a little less shouting and a little more listening would be a good idea, just because you have not seen an Avionic bay hatch in the cabin it does not mean it was not fitted to some aircraft, Things change as aircraft evolve and having worked the aircraft from its first delivery into airline service I can tell you a lot has changed over the years.
Nerd point:
Window and windshield heating on the A320/321 are powered by AC bus 1 (left) and AC bus 2 (right): that is 115 Volts AC.
However, if all three AC phases are used for window heating (and they normally are for large energy users such as heating and electric motors), then there will always be 172.5 Volts AC between any two phases.
Window heating is never powered by inverters - If AC bus 1 or 2 are lost, then so is the window heat on that side.
Window and windshield heating on the A320/321 are powered by AC bus 1 (left) and AC bus 2 (right): that is 115 Volts AC.
However, if all three AC phases are used for window heating (and they normally are for large energy users such as heating and electric motors), then there will always be 172.5 Volts AC between any two phases.
Window heating is never powered by inverters - If AC bus 1 or 2 are lost, then so is the window heat on that side.
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Semreh and A & C... Illuminating!
The most likely scenario is damage to the wiring and the reported fault conditions may not necessarily be relied on; at least as predicted. Still, it neither rules in or out terrorism.
Unless explosives can be confirmed from debris analysis (and perhaps even if it is), it leaves the distinct possibility that there is a potential weak spot in the related wiring harnesses or protection thereof.
If the FDR and CVR are recovered, they may not provide sufficient information to resolve precisely what that weakness is, or how the chain of events may have started.
Locating the wiring and equipment involved, and raising from 10k may be impossible. This will leave the investigators having to try to recreate the circumstances...
It is very worrying if a spilled drink could potentially bring down an airliner?!
The most likely scenario is damage to the wiring and the reported fault conditions may not necessarily be relied on; at least as predicted. Still, it neither rules in or out terrorism.
Unless explosives can be confirmed from debris analysis (and perhaps even if it is), it leaves the distinct possibility that there is a potential weak spot in the related wiring harnesses or protection thereof.
If the FDR and CVR are recovered, they may not provide sufficient information to resolve precisely what that weakness is, or how the chain of events may have started.
Locating the wiring and equipment involved, and raising from 10k may be impossible. This will leave the investigators having to try to recreate the circumstances...
It is very worrying if a spilled drink could potentially bring down an airliner?!
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AP reporting evidence of explosion found on passenger remains.
Egyptian Official Says Human Remains From EgyptAir Crash Site Point to an Explosion on Board: AP - Bloomberg
Egyptian Official Says Human Remains From EgyptAir Crash Site Point to an Explosion on Board: AP - Bloomberg
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At 24/0920 UTC Aljazerra TV reported that Egyptian authorities have advised that signs of explosive contaminants have been detected on body parts and debris so far recovered.
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It's being reported by AP and outlets all over the world right now:
http://news.sky.com/story/1701261/eg...indicate-blast
http://news.sky.com/story/1701261/eg...indicate-blast
An Egyptian forensic official says human remains from the crashed EgyptAir flight indicate there had been an explosion on board.
The official is part of the Egyptian investigative team and has personally examined the remains at a Cairo morgue.
He said all 80 pieces brought to Cairo so far are small and that "there isn't even a whole body part, like an arm or a head".
The official added that "the logical explanation is that it was an explosion" but no traces of explosives have been found yet.
The official is part of the Egyptian investigative team and has personally examined the remains at a Cairo morgue.
He said all 80 pieces brought to Cairo so far are small and that "there isn't even a whole body part, like an arm or a head".
The official added that "the logical explanation is that it was an explosion" but no traces of explosives have been found yet.
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This is unbelievable.
No traces of explosives, no heat exposure and they say about explosion :/
Do they know what happens when aircraft plunges into the sea with very high speed?
When Swissair 111 went down into water near Halifax only one passenger was identified by visual recognition.
And there was no explosion there.
And how powerful should be the explosive material to break into many parts exactly every human body on the plane? That's cray
No traces of explosives, no heat exposure and they say about explosion :/
Do they know what happens when aircraft plunges into the sea with very high speed?
When Swissair 111 went down into water near Halifax only one passenger was identified by visual recognition.
And there was no explosion there.
And how powerful should be the explosive material to break into many parts exactly every human body on the plane? That's cray
Last edited by klintE; 24th May 2016 at 10:27.
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Semreh
The spilled drink was reference to A and C's post. The issue of faults being indicated as a result of wiring damage or shorting was the point. Such defects could be caused by mechanical wear, ineffective over current protection or fire/explosion damage. The less likely is moisture ingress to connectors hence the drinks reference.
Given the ACARS messages last transmitted and assuming that they were not completely unconnected with the loss.... it seems more likely to be a wiring issue than a bay fire. It seems more unlikely that there was a genuine fault with the sliding window.
Of course it cannot be ruled out that the was a cockpit glass failure and the loss of cabin pressure was not transmitted in time. I just feel given the scant amount to go on that a wiring issue is the more likely.
The spilled drink was reference to A and C's post. The issue of faults being indicated as a result of wiring damage or shorting was the point. Such defects could be caused by mechanical wear, ineffective over current protection or fire/explosion damage. The less likely is moisture ingress to connectors hence the drinks reference.
Given the ACARS messages last transmitted and assuming that they were not completely unconnected with the loss.... it seems more likely to be a wiring issue than a bay fire. It seems more unlikely that there was a genuine fault with the sliding window.
Of course it cannot be ruled out that the was a cockpit glass failure and the loss of cabin pressure was not transmitted in time. I just feel given the scant amount to go on that a wiring issue is the more likely.
My God... As klintE says, "this is unbelievable".
I am familiar with "officials" in Egypt but even so, the level of ignorance -- and the level of insensitivity -- of some of these "officials" is disgusting. And not just this supposed "forensic official" who -- as klintE suggests -- is obviously inexperienced in the art and science of aircraft accident investigations (re high energy impacts) but others as well over the past few days.
From the "Head of ANS", to the "Military official in charge" to the Egyptian president himself, statements have been ill informed, premature, and downright stupid. The Egyptian authorities are lacking in a lot of areas; one critical one is a need for some serious training in media / public communications -- and cultural awareness.
It's beyond embarrassing -- but they don't even realize that.
I am familiar with "officials" in Egypt but even so, the level of ignorance -- and the level of insensitivity -- of some of these "officials" is disgusting. And not just this supposed "forensic official" who -- as klintE suggests -- is obviously inexperienced in the art and science of aircraft accident investigations (re high energy impacts) but others as well over the past few days.
From the "Head of ANS", to the "Military official in charge" to the Egyptian president himself, statements have been ill informed, premature, and downright stupid. The Egyptian authorities are lacking in a lot of areas; one critical one is a need for some serious training in media / public communications -- and cultural awareness.
It's beyond embarrassing -- but they don't even realize that.
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Why do airline professionals, whose careers have been most negatively affected by terrorism, strive so hard to accept any cause over even the mere suggestion of foul play? It doesn't compute.
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And I note that this morning the UK national newspapers are saying that there were no turns left and right before the aircraft disappeared. So another piece of the puzzle has just been taken off the table - the autopilot may still have been in control.
A long way back on this thread someone mentioned that these 'turns' may have been a misinterpretation of radar returns of sections of a broken aircraft falling in different directions.
A long way back on this thread someone mentioned that these 'turns' may have been a misinterpretation of radar returns of sections of a broken aircraft falling in different directions.
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Why do airline professionals, whose careers have been most negatively affected by terrorism, strive so hard to accept any cause over even the mere suggestion of foul play? It doesn't compute
So which is worse - terrorism of some kind or an Airbus fault? Arguably terrorism is best. You have someone to blame, something easy-ish to do (reinforce security) and you don't have to deal with the direct and indirect economic impact of Arbus being considered to be unsafe and/or needing grounding
So which is worse - terrorism of some kind or an Airbus fault? Arguably terrorism is best. You have someone to blame, something easy-ish to do (reinforce security) and you don't have to deal with the direct and indirect economic impact of Arbus being considered to be unsafe and/or needing grounding
