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EgyptAir 804 disappears from radar Paris-Cairo

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EgyptAir 804 disappears from radar Paris-Cairo

Old 28th Jun 2016, 07:54
  #1121 (permalink)  
 
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I'll bet the French have copied the data first though.
Who will leak the contents first I wonder.
Isn't that a "given" on the basis that you must have read the data successfully to enable you to state that you have made a successful repair to it.

Ref the point regarding Coroner's enquiry versus criminal court, surely you have to establish the facts first (or at the very least, the chronological chain of events) before you can begin to consider who may be guilty of committing an offence
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Old 28th Jun 2016, 08:33
  #1122 (permalink)  
 
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I understand there was salt water ingress into the module.
Hard to believe, as it normally is fully potted with a silicon rubber compound.
On the other hand, at 400 bar, even solid materials start to show deformation, and the relatively soft rubber may be compressed more than the relatively stiff metal housing, leaving space for water to get in between.
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Old 28th Jun 2016, 09:12
  #1123 (permalink)  
 
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Potting is really best for stabilising components. if there are any materials (wires etc) passing through from the internal to the external there will always be a seam between the potting material and the other. However well made and tested seams are the weak point in any construction.
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Old 28th Jun 2016, 09:17
  #1124 (permalink)  
 
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From Wiki:

France[edit]
In France, the Office of the Prosecutor includes a Chief Prosecutor, or Procureur de la République (or procureur général in an appellate court or in the Supreme Court) assisted by deputy prosecutors (avocats généraux) and assistant prosecutors (substituts). The Chief Prosecutor generally initiates preliminary investigations and, if necessary, asks an examining judge, or juge d'instruction, be assigned to lead a formal judicial investigation. When an investigation is led by a judge, the prosecutor plays a supervisory role, defining the scope of the crimes being examined by the judge and law enforcement forces. Like defense counsel, the chief prosecutor may petition or motion for further investigation. During criminal proceedings, prosecutors are responsible for presenting the case at trial to either the Bench or jury. They generally suggest advisory sentencing guidelines, but it remains at the Court's discretion to decide its own sentence, increased or reduced as it sees fit. In addition, prosecutors have several administrative duties.

Prosecutors are considered by French law as magistrates (as in most civil law countries). While the defense and plaintiff are both represented by common lawyers, sitting on the ground in the courtroom, the prosecutor sits on a platform as the court does, although he doesn't participate in deliberation. Judges and prosecutors are trained in the same school, and regard each other as colleagues.
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Old 29th Jun 2016, 20:07
  #1125 (permalink)  
 
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Egyptair black box

Since the previous thread is apparently closed...

"Black box recordings on crashed EgyptAir flight MS804 confirm smoke on board, Egyptian investigators say"

...was just tweeted by the Beeb
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Old 29th Jun 2016, 20:17
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And severe heat damage. Avherald reporting "evidence of fire in the forward section of the aircraft".
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Old 29th Jun 2016, 20:17
  #1127 (permalink)  
 
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Mike:

Thanks for the latest update. Glad more evidence is coming to light.

Here's the verbiage from Aviation Herald:

On Jun 29th 2016 Egypt's CAA reported that the flight data recorder has been successfully downloaded, more than 1200 parameters are being decoded and validated. Data are present from departure at Charles de Gaulle Airport in Paris until the aircraft was at FL370 just after the ACARS messages (see below in data section) were transmitted, the data are consistent with the ACARS messages of lavatory and avionics bay smoke. Recovered wreckage parts from the forward section of the aircraft show severe heat damage and evidence of thick black smoke (soot). The investigation is going to undertake comprehensive analysis to try to determine the source and cause of the fire.

The thread I started several days ago was simply added to http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5...ris-cairo.html, which was then closed again.

I suspect the Mods may do the same with this thread.
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Old 29th Jun 2016, 20:18
  #1128 (permalink)  
 
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Does anybody remember whether the FDR of SR111 kept working to impact? It seems strange that the FDR stopped on this case.
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Old 29th Jun 2016, 20:22
  #1129 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tubby linton View Post
Does anybody remember whether the FDR of SR111 kept working to impact? It seems strange that the FDR stopped on this case.
No they did not. Actually they stopped quite a but before the actual cash, almost 30m if memory serves. Which created quite a ruckus back then.

What do find strange in the FDR stopping? No power no recording...
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Old 29th Jun 2016, 20:39
  #1130 (permalink)  
 
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the data are consistent with the ACARS messages of lavatory and avionics bay smoke
Is that just a roundabout way of saying the FDR recorded the fact that those messages had been transmitted?

If so, we're not actually any wiser than we were before.
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Old 29th Jun 2016, 20:52
  #1131 (permalink)  
 
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From the same official statement:

Regarding the CVR, repairs are still under progress at the French aircraft accident investigation bureau.
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Old 29th Jun 2016, 21:03
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This is only reporting the time period that the FDR recording covers. The recording continues "just after the ACARS messages were transmitted", presumably just after the last of the ACARS messages were transmitted.

They are not reporting any FDR content beyond the coverage period.

So for the FDR, we are only the tiniest bit more informed than we were before.
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Old 29th Jun 2016, 21:14
  #1133 (permalink)  
 
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No they did not. Actually they stopped quite a but before the actual cash, almost 30m if memory serves. Which created quite a ruckus back then.
The first sentence is true. The rest is untrue. The recorders stopped working about five minutes before crash and at approximate 9K MSL.

And it is worth noting that this was due to a fire in the cockpit itself.

Last edited by MountainBear; 29th Jun 2016 at 21:16. Reason: spelling
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Old 29th Jun 2016, 23:42
  #1134 (permalink)  
 
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So what causes are compatible with what we now know? Could this for example be caused by a short in the electrical system--but that a bomb would be too fast acting to have this result?
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Old 29th Jun 2016, 23:44
  #1135 (permalink)  
 
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Recovered wreckage parts from the forward section of the aircraft show severe heat damage and evidence of thick black smoke (soot).
The presence of thick smoke and soot could suggest no bomb and some kind of serious electrical failure.
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Old 30th Jun 2016, 00:11
  #1136 (permalink)  
 
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Egypt CAA confirms high temperature damage fwd A/C

As already predicted, FDR stopped when MS804 was still @ FL370, probably @ same time the transponder quit. Not much hope that CVR will have data after that moment either. The more intriguing though is the official message that front of A/C wreckage reportedly already salvaged is said to show signs of high temperature damage and soot.

http://www.civilaviation.gov.eg/News...s_30_6_16.html

"Cairo, 29 June 2016

Following the successful download of the data of the Flight Data Recorder (FDR) of the doomed A320, decoding and validation of more than 1200 parameter is in progress in order to commence the next phase of reading and analyzing the data.
Preliminary information shows that the entire flight is recorded on the FDR since its take off from charles de gaulle airport until the recording had stopped at an altitude of 37 thousand feet where the accident occured.
Recorded data is showing a consistency with ACARS messages of lavatory smoke and avionics smoke.

Some recovered wreckage parts of the front section of the aircraft showed signs of high temperature damage and soot .

Analysis will be carried out to try to identify the source and reason for those signs.

Regarding the CVR, repairs are still under progress at the French aircraft accident investigation bureau.

Noteworthy; Collection of identified human remains is still ongoing and will continue till full recovery of all the remains at the crash location."
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Old 2nd Jul 2016, 14:27
  #1137 (permalink)  
 
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EgyptAir Flight 804 Cockpit Voice Recorder Memory Chips Intact - WSJ July 2, 2016

EgyptAir Flight 804 Cockpit Voice Recorder Memory Chips Intact, Wall Street Journal July 2, 2016

EgyptAir Flight 804 Cockpit Recorder Memory Chips Intact - WSJ
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Old 2nd Jul 2016, 14:32
  #1138 (permalink)  
 
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Associated Press article, Investigators say voice recording from EgyptAir crash intact::

News from The Associated Press
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Old 2nd Jul 2016, 19:33
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Official Egyptian Investigation (newspapers dont add much)

Cairo,2 july 2016

Extensive examinations that were carried out at the French aircraft accident Investigation Bureau; on the electronic board components of the Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR) of the A320’; showed that none of the memory ships of the electronic board was damaged .

However some other supportive components associated with communication to and from the memory chips had to be removed and replaced with new ones; whereas advanced high technology will be used to extract the recordings of these units .

After the replacement of the CVR board components; tests results were satisfactory as it enabled the reading of the recorders of the CVR memory unit .

The investigation committee members are planning to return back soon to Cairo with the fixed boards to continue reading and analyzing the FDR and CVR at the central department for aircraft accident at the Ministry of Civil Aviation .

It is worth mentioning that collecting human remains continues according to planned standard procedures.
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Old 5th Jul 2016, 15:25
  #1140 (permalink)  
 
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Egyptair 804: CVR indicates a Cockpit Fire

A recent news item provides a bit of information from the Egyptair CVR.
It's in French, and partly behind a paywall:
Crash d'Egyptair: un pilote a tenté d'éteindre l'incendie

An English article based on this is here:
EgyptAir pilot tried to put out fire on board plane, black box shows | Africa | News | The Independent

The report only indicates that one of the pilots was fighting a cockpit fire.
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