United flight attendant pulls emergency exit, walks away

[Chris2303]

Originally Posted by Hotel Tango

Chris, you've got the wrong end of the stick. I agreed with you!

It wasn't a dig at you but at that punitive retribution society you refer to. Any level headed person here on PPRuNe would wholeheartedly agree with your comment in her getting help rather than punishment.

Are we friends again?

Sorry I got confused. Friends again :-)

[aterpster]

That collective bargaining agreement is representative of most CBAs under the Railway Labor Act for unionized airline employees. The grievance provisions are virtually identical to those I worked with when I was an ALPA representative.

EDIT: In the pilot contract I worked under we had a provision that a pilot would not be required to pay for any equipment he/she may damage in the conduct of his/her duties. I don't see that provision in the linked United FA CBA. So, in theory at least, the company could bill the FA for the $20,000 plus expense of restoring the slide.

[Basil]

She needs help more that she needs punishment. Love the punitive retributive society in which we live.
Seconded. Fortunately, she acted out whatever problems she has in a non-life-threatening manner.

Except that, had the slide landed on a ramp worker, she could now be facing a manslaughter charge.

[oleostrut]

Originally Posted by Chronus

I`d hand her a community service order for 1000 hrs as a slide attendant at a kiddies amusement park. She`d soon recover from her passion for slides.

She and other employees would benefit from having her duty station changed to the "boat shop" for 3 months or so. Have her learn and contribute to the inspection, testing and overhaul of the slides and rafts. She would gain a whole new respect for these items, and would very likely share her understanding with future, fellow flight crew members.

Even the flight deck crew would benefit from having a thorough understanding of these items, and also learn how fragile they are, and what risks they present to the aircraft and safety of flight.

[flash8]

She and other employees would benefit from having her duty station changed to the "boat shop" for 3 months or so. Have her learn and contribute to the inspection, testing and overhaul of the slides and rafts. She would gain a whole new respect for these items, and would very likely share her understanding with future, fellow flight crew members.

And I vote this one of the most sensible comments I've heard in a long time!

[IBMJunkman]

I would hope she has to pay for a replacement slide.

[OldLurker]

Originally Posted by oleostrut

... how fragile they are, and what risks they present to the aircraft and safety of flight.

Indeed.
Deployment of right over-wing slide in flight, London TMA, 31 October 2014

[Aluminium shuffler]

So, a crew member with a grudge criminally damages an aircraft, causes a considerable delay for the passengers, large financial cost to the airline and endangers ground crew and passengers in the process and you think she should just be let off with no punishment? Are you posting from a mental institution? She should be charged with the costs born by the company, fired and barred from working in any safety critical task ever again, including revoking her driving licence. I would argue she should be sent for psychological evaluation to determine her risk to society, too.

[Rwy in Sight]

revoking her driving licence

Isn't that too extreme. In the states a driving license is a life line or almost at least outside big cities.

[notapilot15]

A/S

In the free world everyone is entitled to due process. There is no concept of locking up and throwing away the key.

[FE Hoppy]

I would have the little princess re-packing slides until she's done $25k worth of hours. Preferably the same slide which she deployed. Then bin it and her.

[Junkflyer]

Whatever the reasons behind her actions, she still bears responsibility. To suggest that any form of punishment is not warranted is certainly a position that is not well thought out. When employed in a job in which safety and the well being of other people are involved, deploying a slide due to job dissatisfaction is in no way justified.
Should a disgruntled pilot be allowed to act in a way that jeopardizes safety? Obviously not.

[Chris2303]

Originally Posted by Junkflyer

Should a disgruntled pilot be allowed to act in a way that jeopardizes safety? Obviously not.

If a disgruntled pilot requires professional mental health assistance then he or she should be given it in the same way this flight attendant should.

Sometimes I despair for those in the human race who show such intolerance for their fellow humans who so obviously need professional help.

[Stone_cold]

If they seek the help prior to going on duty . Too much political correctness . This was an unlawful act . There are consequences to unlawful behaviour . Get the damn help you need before sign on !!!

[aterpster]

Chris2303:

If a disgruntled pilot requires professional mental health assistance then he or she should be given it in the same way this flight attendant should.

Sometimes I despair for those in the human race who show such intolerance for their fellow humans who so obviously need professional help.

In the U.S. we have had a alcohol diversion program for both pilots and flight attendants for many years. Lots of help and interventions. But, if they show up for work under the influence they are fired, period.

Same for mental health issues. Lots of options, but crashing or seriously compromising an aircraft isn't one of them.

[Pakehaboy]

Originally Posted by Chris2303

If a disgruntled pilot requires professional mental health assistance then he or she should be given it in the same way this flight attendant should.

Sometimes I despair for those in the human race who show such intolerance for their fellow humans who so obviously need professional help.

Chris2303........couldn't agree more,luckily and appropriately many airlines are pursuing avenues that cater to employees with these issues....it's a good thing.The problem arises when employees know they have issues,they will not,and cannot get the help they need....they hide under a rock until it's too late........the avenues for help need to be proactive rather than reactive.....

[parabellum]

EDIT: In the pilot contract I worked under we had a provision that a pilot would not be required to pay for any equipment he/she may damage in the conduct of his/her duties. I don't see that provision in the linked United FA CBA. So, in theory at least, the company could bill the FA for the $20,000 plus expense of restoring the slide.

Even if that provision was in the contract, I can't see how unnecessarily banging off a slide in order to leave the aircraft, when no emergency exists, rather than using the correct exit and air bridge, can even remotely be classified as 'in the conduct of her duties'.

[Gauges and Dials]

What a lot of people seem to be missing...

Some crimes are based on the criminal making an assessment of risks and rewards: "I can rob that liquor store; I'll net $1,200 cash, and the chances of getting caught and punished are slim." For those people, punishment, a.k.a., throwing the book at them, is a sensible deterrent.

There are other people who act badly because they are, to borrow a technical term from psychiatry, bat-**** crazy. Punishing those people doesn't accomplish much. The person who tries to open the overwing exit in flight because the voices are commanding him to do so, is not going to be deterred in the slightest by the notion that the last guy who tried that got sent to jail for 5 years. Nor is sending this guy to jail for five years going to deter the next bat-**** crazy person from acting out.

Yes, he definitely needs to have his liberty restricted so as to reduce the risk he poses to others and to himself, but no, punishing him doesn't make a whit of difference.

[stiglet]

Any action taken should aim to: punish the offender, protect the public, prevent it happening again and put the victim in the position they were in before the offence took place.

Is this person insane? I would assume unlikely as they have been: employed, trained and operating as aircrew. Any consequences therefore justify punishment of some sort.

This act has demonstrated this person is not suited to working in a public safety related environment. They should therefore never be allowed to work as aircrew again to protect the public from them.

Any punishment metered out should aim to deter anyone else, public or crew from doing this, so preventing it happening again.
Punishing this offender therefore, in my view, does ‘make a whit of difference’ as you put it. Also having ‘his liberty restricted’ is a punishment.

They should be made to ‘put the victim in the position they were in before the offence took place’ so of course they should pay compensation to the company of, at the very least, the cost of the slide.

And lastly they should be made to pay any subsequent court costs.

I can see no excuse for this behaviour.

[Gauges and Dials]

Stiglet, any even remotely rational person would realize that if you wrongly deploy the emergency slide while the plane is at an airport, the chances of getting caught and punished are 100%. It's obvious on the face that this was not even a remotely rational act; I can't imagine how you can call this person sane.

That doesn't, of course, excuse the behavior, nor relieve the perpetrator from responsibility for making the victim whole again, e.g., by paying for a new slide, etc.

But calling for draconian punishment, when it's already obvious that the threat of 100% certain and negative consequences did not deter this crazy person and will not deter future crazy people, isn't going to prevent this from happening again; it's only pointless retribution.

There's a difference between putting a criminal in a cage to punish him, and putting an intractably crazy person in a cage to physically prevent him from injuring others: In the former case we should make the cage experience unpleasant; in the latter case there's no reason not to make the cage experience as comfortable and pleasant as possible.