B-738 Crash in Russia Rostov-on-Don
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Whilst I don't disagree with the general point you are making - let's remember that this crew appears to have proficiently conducted a go-around the first time. Also, it is my interpretation of the tone and style of the ATC radio calls - that this does not appear to be a crew under stress. Heaven only knows what happened?
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Crew is quoted as 7. LoCos normally operate as 2/4, so we're there 3 in the flightdeck? Check flight or training? Decode why hang around so long if others were diverting? Conditions didn't forecast an improvement and tower still reporting wind shear. The aircraft in front landed. Did this cause the crew to make one last go before diverting (to where?Baku or Tiblisi?)
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Thoughts to all affected.
I would love to know why they held for 2 hours? Things to consider;
1. Weather didn't improve/move for two hours suggests severity
2. Burning of fuel meant he was eating into his extra fuel
3. Subsequent problems at alternate 2, weather, flap assym
4. Get in itis mindset at destination. Whatever nature throws at me I can land after two hours of thinking time? Whatever the issue
A uk operator nearly lost a 737 in a go around years ago. Mishandled go around at nearly made stall speed over a southern uk.
Sad for all
I would love to know why they held for 2 hours? Things to consider;
1. Weather didn't improve/move for two hours suggests severity
2. Burning of fuel meant he was eating into his extra fuel
3. Subsequent problems at alternate 2, weather, flap assym
4. Get in itis mindset at destination. Whatever nature throws at me I can land after two hours of thinking time? Whatever the issue
A uk operator nearly lost a 737 in a go around years ago. Mishandled go around at nearly made stall speed over a southern uk.
Sad for all
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Nowadays, we are all encouraged to go around for a wide variety of reasons, as if going around is a risk free procedure that will automatically cure all your troubles.
Yes, I know a GA is a normal manoeuvre, and shouldn't cause a regular crew any difficulty, but here's another accident on the go around.
Flying skills are being eroded these days, and maybe the encouragement to 'throw it away' is designed to help poorer crews to not get in over their heads. But sometimes, being forced to GA, for example by the Windshear detection system, is not as useful as it could be.
Yes, I know a GA is a normal manoeuvre, and shouldn't cause a regular crew any difficulty, but here's another accident on the go around.
Flying skills are being eroded these days, and maybe the encouragement to 'throw it away' is designed to help poorer crews to not get in over their heads. But sometimes, being forced to GA, for example by the Windshear detection system, is not as useful as it could be.
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Re the photo above. Geez. That didn't scrape it's tail, or strike a wing tip, and then subsequently slide along the runway!! The Asiana B777 at SFO a few years ago had a really hard impact with the runway, and a cartwheel, but the fuselage stayed largely intact. The photo from Rostov shows only a debris field, not a semblance of an aircraft.
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remarkable similarity to the Kazan accident in Nov 13.
weather today in Rostov is worse, low vis, low cloud and snow
TAF URRR 190800Z 1909/2009 35007G13MPS 0500 +SHSN BKN003 BKN020CB
TEMPO 1909/1915 1200 SHSN BR BKN002 BKN020CB
FM191500 36003G09MPS 3000 -SHSN BR SCT005 BKN020CB
BECMG 2005/2007 34007G13MPS
weather today in Rostov is worse, low vis, low cloud and snow
TAF URRR 190800Z 1909/2009 35007G13MPS 0500 +SHSN BKN003 BKN020CB
TEMPO 1909/1915 1200 SHSN BR BKN002 BKN020CB
FM191500 36003G09MPS 3000 -SHSN BR SCT005 BKN020CB
BECMG 2005/2007 34007G13MPS
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Missed approach RW 22 calls for straight ahead to 940 ft QNH, then left turn climbing and level off 2250 ft QNH.
They were at 3500 ft QNH / 4000 ft QNE before the vertical fall started, runway track.
They were at 3500 ft QNH / 4000 ft QNE before the vertical fall started, runway track.
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they advised atc if they were to go around they would climb to 8,000
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Could it not be that whatever caused them to go around for the first time also caused a second go around.
Previous go around accidents have proved that the 737 can be a handful in th go around and the pitch power couple can catch you out. This is the third accident of its type in Russia involving the 737.
The images look eerily similar to the previous incidents too. A video showing a high ROD, a flash following a very high energy impact, and highly fragmented pieces of the wreckage.
The previous two incidents (Aeroflot 821 and Tartastan 363) also happened very close to the airport perimeter.
Previous go around accidents have proved that the 737 can be a handful in th go around and the pitch power couple can catch you out. This is the third accident of its type in Russia involving the 737.
The images look eerily similar to the previous incidents too. A video showing a high ROD, a flash following a very high energy impact, and highly fragmented pieces of the wreckage.
The previous two incidents (Aeroflot 821 and Tartastan 363) also happened very close to the airport perimeter.
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All hypothetical of course, but I wonder if a bus with GS mini would have yielded the same outcome. Boeing does not have GS mini as far as I know. If it was a microburst there might have been a GPWS warning on the CVR (before the stall warning?). In terms of game theory, the legal/company rules might make pilots less inclined to do a go around on second attempt. (i.e. if 'One attempt, two attempt, divert.' applies and you do not want to divert...) All that pressure can take its toll on speed monitoring as well. Anyone seeing similarities to Turkish Airlines in Amsterdam? (aircraft, emerging market airlines, possibly speed issue, possibly go-around not done [in time] when it should have been etc.)
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FlyDubai Plane Crashes in Russia, Killing All 62 Aboard - WSJ Article
From the Wall Street Journal, March 18, 2016:
FlyDubai Plane Crashes in Russia, Killing All 62 Aboard - WSJ
FlyDubai Plane Crashes in Russia, Killing All 62 Aboard - WSJ
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Culture will definitely need to be looked at it. A predominantly out-back airline with minimal overnights. No doubt there is pressure on the crew and a crew in general goal oriented to land and get it done. What happens if they diver and are then forced to just fly back to Dubai? How does management handle that? Lotta questions here.
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Flyer1015 - so you think an airline that doesn't nightstop needs looked at because they don't night stop? Where do they find people like you??? It no two bob outfit from the Middle East, it's a serious player, has had a great record until now. Let's keep things in perspective and not forget that there is no correlation between LCCs and legacy airlines (in the non Southeast Asian world) when it comes to safety. If you do have any information to the contrary please point us to it.
As we have learned from MH17, MH370 and many others 'officials' often make statements that they are not qualified to make. They good posts that they are not qualified for and believe that because they have a title that they know what they're talking about and are empowered to make comments on subjects that they know nothing about.
I had a filling yesterday. In some cultures that would qualify me to be a minister for health.
As we have learned from MH17, MH370 and many others 'officials' often make statements that they are not qualified to make. They good posts that they are not qualified for and believe that because they have a title that they know what they're talking about and are empowered to make comments on subjects that they know nothing about.
I had a filling yesterday. In some cultures that would qualify me to be a minister for health.
Last edited by HeartyMeatballs; 19th Mar 2016 at 10:59.