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Old 24th Mar 2017, 15:56   #1541 (permalink)

Supercharged PPRuNer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: A long, long way from the sandpit.
Posts: 1,146
Rat 5

It was an out and back 2 sector duty.


An excellent description of fatigue. It can be insidious and creep up on you without you even realizing. Regarding accountability, fatiguing rostering practices have been a fact of life at FZ for years. In my experience, with the honourable exception of the safety department, management were utterly indifferent to the problem. In the months leading up to the crash, there were around 20 fatigue-related ASR's per month, and the response was usually along the lines of "it's legal captain" or "that's how it is, if you don't like it you can leave." Many did.

Bearing in mind that Flydubai's chairman is also president of the Dubai CAA, and given the local culture where bad / embarrassing / inconvenient news is - how can I put it - 'discouraged,' I seriously doubt that anyone senior in the company will ever be held accountable.

A final report blaming pilot error would suit certain people very nicely.
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Old 25th Mar 2017, 14:06   #1542 (permalink)
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Originally Posted by framer View Post
The rosters that you flew GSXTY should be illegal and the head of FlyD should have to defend his/her oversite of the rosters produced leading up to the crash ( I won't say accident).
The flaw in the cunning plan there is that the then Chief Pilot at FZ now unbelievably promoted to DFO. Gave more of a flying monkeys as to the contents of his hankie the last time he blew his nose than about fatigue, hull losses and you or anyone else.

To aid that there is no effective or real oversight, he is literally a law unto himself and the people allegedly accountable for oversight of him and the whole shebang own the airline!

The only thing that can happen is that pilots simply do what he says in his daily mantra. "if you don't like it, leave!" When they have no pilots or no pax the problem ends. Until then the dice are rolled at least 54 times a day and often two or three times that! Sadly the only inevitability here is when the next one will be.

So unnecessary and so sad. The blind being led by the blind being overseen by the greedy and uncaring for the aloof. What a receipe!
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Old 25th Mar 2017, 17:31   #1543 (permalink)
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So when are the pilots who have gajones (there must be enough of them to affect the roster) going to make a very public block protest and leave a/c on the ground? Are you suggesting that all the pilots are willing to Ko-tow. I know it's easier said than done, but why risk your health when there is a solution via resistance on safety grounds. Even in Dubai they can't ignore that argument if the voice is full & loud. Or is that all too wishful thinking?
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Old 25th Mar 2017, 19:33   #1544 (permalink)
Join Date: Sep 2008
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I think it will be within the next couple of years. Many pilots are making a fuss about it right now. My outfit just hired an office person full time to deal with the reporting and management of fatigue, we have ten aircraft.
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Old 25th Mar 2017, 20:59   #1545 (permalink)
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There are several good reasons, why a large number of people chose to fly a 737 in the Sandpit rather than in their home countries/continents. Combine that with the fact organised labour and strikes are illegal in the UAE, and you've handed management a set of powerful tools with which to keep the workers in check.

Asking the crew to collectively stand up against the practices in e.g. FZ is therefore not only unreasonable, it would also be illegal and could have dire consequences for those involved.

Pilots, when not strongly organised in a union, have an exceedingly poor track record of forming ranks to improve their collective situation. To put it bluntly, a group of pilots are not a team; they are a collection of individual PLCs, acting only in what they believe is in their own self interest.
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Old 5th Aug 2017, 16:11   #1546 (permalink)
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So Fatigue has not been mentioned in the report, wonder why?

Convenient for airlines, the dead can't defend themselves, and the companies can continue their normal operations, as their operations are legal, when will somebody stand up for fatigue in the business, or do we need many more "Pilot Error" crashes before somebody will finally wake up.
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