AA206 MIA-MXP Diverted to CYYT: Reports of pax injured due to turbulence
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AA206 MIA-MXP Diverted to CYYT: Reports of pax injured due to turbulence
Local media here in YYT reporting that an AA 767 from MIA to MXP encountered turbulence and diverted here with injured pax. Three removed on backboards, upto 6 injured. Reports on twitter say that 2 of the injured were FA's.
Flight diverted to St. John?s; injuries reported - Local - The Telegram
Flight diverted to St. John?s; injuries reported - Local - The Telegram
Last edited by AJW709; 25th Jan 2016 at 01:37.
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They discussed going to Gander if the runway conditions weren't favorable at St. John's. They got a 'good' braking action report from a Jazz RJ. ATC asked about injuries and they didn't have numbers but said the most serious was a flight attendant who was bleeding.
ILS to 11, turn around and back taxi on the runway (turn around must be at the Bravo fillet I would guess), runway 16 to gate 1.
Flight track here:
American Airlines (AA) #206 ? 24-Jan-2016 ? KMIA - CYYT ? FlightAware
More in this news story:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfou...ohns-1.3418056
ILS to 11, turn around and back taxi on the runway (turn around must be at the Bravo fillet I would guess), runway 16 to gate 1.
Flight track here:
American Airlines (AA) #206 ? 24-Jan-2016 ? KMIA - CYYT ? FlightAware
More in this news story:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfou...ohns-1.3418056
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From the position it appears that the flight was in the remnants of the 'winter storm' Jonas.
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That really is nonsense. Seat belts should be fastened at all times unless the passenger is actually walking to the toilet.
Clear air turbulence can happen without warning anywhere and anytime.
These are the same idiots who refuse to wear seat belts in a car.
Clear air turbulence can happen without warning anywhere and anytime.
These are the same idiots who refuse to wear seat belts in a car.
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The CBC story linked in post #2 has a short video clip that seems to be filmed onboard. Also reports that 3 Flight Attendants were amongst the injured. Seat Belt sign on but meal service (perhaps without hot fluids) continuing?
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It's a human factors problem. The problem is that the signage does not match the words. As a supposed human factors educated industry, it is pretty embarrassing really.
All seat belts fastened signs should really be "safe to leave your seat" signs. Seat belts should be mandatory at all times. When the sign is on you can't leave your seat. When it is off, then you might stand up to use the lav or stretch your legs.
But currently we are telling people one thing and showing them another. Unfortunately, airlines don't do anything if it costs even 1/100th of a penny. So this needs to be regulation driven.
All seat belts fastened signs should really be "safe to leave your seat" signs. Seat belts should be mandatory at all times. When the sign is on you can't leave your seat. When it is off, then you might stand up to use the lav or stretch your legs.
But currently we are telling people one thing and showing them another. Unfortunately, airlines don't do anything if it costs even 1/100th of a penny. So this needs to be regulation driven.
Sorry, have to go with Ian W on this one. Remember that oldie -"one pilot's light chop is another's severe turbulence". As he points out, too many times sitting there with the seat belt sign on for hours in "severe smooth", with said sign being ignored by all and sundry, including the FA's.
I used to brief the crew-"when that sign is on, then you had better pay attention...."
(p.s as I recall, that "seat belts sign on permanently" stuff used to be a function of good ol' USA legal action phobia- (you know, like the car whiplash scams), "the Captain didn't have the seat belt sign on in turbulence; I broke my leg; pay me a million dollars".
Hopefully those days are gone. I believe just about everybody now makes the PA "keep belts fastened at all times when seated, even with the signs off, in case of unexpected turbulence". But as we all know, this more often than not falls on deaf ears...
I used to brief the crew-"when that sign is on, then you had better pay attention...."
(p.s as I recall, that "seat belts sign on permanently" stuff used to be a function of good ol' USA legal action phobia- (you know, like the car whiplash scams), "the Captain didn't have the seat belt sign on in turbulence; I broke my leg; pay me a million dollars".
Hopefully those days are gone. I believe just about everybody now makes the PA "keep belts fastened at all times when seated, even with the signs off, in case of unexpected turbulence". But as we all know, this more often than not falls on deaf ears...
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Accidents on international flights are covered by the Montreal Convention 1999 or the Warsaw Convention.
Airlines 'strict' liability is limited. Few sharks will waste their time challenging the Conventions' terms. It's too much like hard work. And it seldom works.
Airlines 'strict' liability is limited. Few sharks will waste their time challenging the Conventions' terms. It's too much like hard work. And it seldom works.
It does not amaze me at all that people ignore the seatbelt light. Many many transatlantic flights where the light goes on then is not extinguished despite no turbulence _for hours_ even full meal service continues and flight attendants do not stop people going to the lavatories. So it has become meaningless. If the seatbelt light was switched off when there was no turbulence and only illuminated when there was turbulence or a real risk of it, then it would be obeyed more. Continually 'crying wolf' has the effect of devaluing the warning.
While I always keep my belt fastened while seated, lav use can become urgent. I take my lead from the FA - if I really need to go, and the FA are up and around, I'll make a quick trip to the lav. If anything, I'll just get a knowing nod from the FA.
Perhaps its time to change the seat belt sign on all airliners to something more indicative of the risk of not belting up. Maybe a flashing picture of man with two black eyes and a neckbrace, or an ambulance backing up to the aircraft stairs. Or an even simpler UPPER CASE sign 'BELT UP NOW'. Combined with a claxon and background soundtrack of moaning, injured passengers, that should scare everyone enough. There could even be a simple sensor that provides an indication of which passengers are not using their seatbelts allowing faster refusal of compensation claims.
Last edited by Chronic Snoozer; 25th Jan 2016 at 17:07.
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More pilots would cycle the seatbelt sign according to ride conditions if the annoying PA announcement wouldn't automatically come on every time the seatbelt sign is turned on.
"Continually 'crying wolf' has the effect of devaluing the warning"
Ian is spot on.
Another exanple of how this industry is not managed properly.
Seat belt sign paranoia has completely undermined the entire reason for it being there.
Ian is spot on.
Another exanple of how this industry is not managed properly.
Seat belt sign paranoia has completely undermined the entire reason for it being there.
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Nervous pax point of view: I always have my seat belt fastened, quite tightly actually, except when actually leaving my seat. The annoyance with permanently-on signs is that it does NOT just mean "Fasten Your Seatbelt": it also means "Do Not Leave Your Seat," even if you have been keeping up your hydration on a ten-hour flight.
How about you stop calling your customers stupid? I am a regular customer, keep my seat belt fastened but do have to go to the toilet every now and again. Ian W is right. So all you people who think you are smarter than me please put your hands up.
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This thread has comments nearly identical as the one started on Jan.5 regarding an Air Canada Boeing 777 diverting to CYYC due to severe turbulence. The media reports and passenger comments are also predictably similar..
Any current research being done on CAT (Clear Air Turbulence)?
Northwest's (Northwest Orient Airlines) meteorologists, led by Dan Sowa, pioneered the first clear-air turbulence forecasting system in 1957, important since the airline flew many northern routes over turbulence-prone mountain areas. Northwest remained a leader in turbulence prediction, providing TPAWS (turbulence prediction and warning services) to other airlines.
A strong predictor of CAT is a sudden rise of OAT, (outside air temperature). Flying near the warm sector of the jet stream core also counts for plenty.. I think they experimented with a warning system that would alert pilots if the OAT rose rapidly while in cruise above a predetermined flight level. Whether the warning would be enough time for the pilot to react and the passengers and aircrew to buckle-in remains a question.
Any current research being done on CAT (Clear Air Turbulence)?
Northwest's (Northwest Orient Airlines) meteorologists, led by Dan Sowa, pioneered the first clear-air turbulence forecasting system in 1957, important since the airline flew many northern routes over turbulence-prone mountain areas. Northwest remained a leader in turbulence prediction, providing TPAWS (turbulence prediction and warning services) to other airlines.
A strong predictor of CAT is a sudden rise of OAT, (outside air temperature). Flying near the warm sector of the jet stream core also counts for plenty.. I think they experimented with a warning system that would alert pilots if the OAT rose rapidly while in cruise above a predetermined flight level. Whether the warning would be enough time for the pilot to react and the passengers and aircrew to buckle-in remains a question.
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I find that when the flight deck announces over the PA "Cabin crew take your seats now" it tends to mean the roller coaster is about to start. Not heard it often, but more than once.