Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

AA206 MIA-MXP Diverted to CYYT: Reports of pax injured due to turbulence

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

AA206 MIA-MXP Diverted to CYYT: Reports of pax injured due to turbulence

Old 25th Jan 2016, 22:12
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 11
Does the truth hurt you?? If you need to use the washroom and the seatbelt sign is lit, you take your chances either trying to hold it in or to go to the washroom. But I'll bet many just get up when they don't need to go that bad or even worse, ignore the seatbelt light and not buckle up. For those people, I say stupid! Just like obeying a traffic light, that seatbelt light is there for your safety and those around you.
Johno8 is offline  
Old 25th Jan 2016, 22:20
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: SF Bay area, CA USA
Posts: 251
No smoking and seat belt sign.

I'm old enough to remember the "No Smoking" sign turned off at first flap retraction and "Fasten seat belt" sign off upon contacting Center.
jack11111 is online now  
Old 25th Jan 2016, 22:23
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Timbukthree
Posts: 1
Polar Jet Stream Cross-section: (note 11 km is aprox FL360)
evansb is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2016, 16:01
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Florida and wherever my laptop is
Posts: 1,307
Originally Posted by The Ancient Geek View Post
That really is nonsense. Seat belts should be fastened at all times unless the passenger is actually walking to the toilet.
Clear air turbulence can happen without warning anywhere and anytime.

These are the same idiots who refuse to wear seat belts in a car.
Well the pax injured all at the back I think that is what they were doing. Around 4 hours into the flight meal service finished carts being put away; the pax were either in or waiting for the lav after the meal service had finished. The FA's were probably stowing the carts. Back of the aircraft is always where the worse G moments will be in turbulence.

If you look in the lavs when the seatbelt light comes up the lav light normally says something like 'return to your seat' - pax are not going to do that when they got up and walked to the lav in the first place.

If seatbelt sign is on it means don't even go to the lav it is too dangerous and same for FA's with hot drinks and carts - they should be seated and carts away too. If it is NOT too dangerous then the seat belt light should be off.
Ian W is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2016, 16:35
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 10,812
Originally Posted by Ian W View Post
If seatbelt sign is on it means don't even go to the lav it is too dangerous and same for FA's with hot drinks and carts - they should be seated and carts away too. If it is NOT too dangerous then the seat belt light should be off.
Are you saying that there should be no differentiation between how the seat belt signs apply to pax and F/As? How would that work?
DaveReidUK is online now  
Old 26th Jan 2016, 17:28
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: U.S.A
Age: 51
Posts: 407
"Are you saying that there should be no differentiation between how the seat belt signs apply to pax and F/As?"

Do FA's undergo special "walking in turbulence" training?
oicur12.again is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2016, 18:46
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 10,812
Originally Posted by oicur12.again View Post
Do FA's undergo special "walking in turbulence" training?
I didn't say that.

My question was about the previous poster's suggestion that F/As should be seated whenever the seatbelt sign is on (ie not just when there's a "Cabin crew take your seats now" annunciation).

Views on how that would work (or not) welcomed.
DaveReidUK is online now  
Old 26th Jan 2016, 19:06
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: The blasted heath
Posts: 238
I worked for AA for 15 years (ending in about 2003) and it was common practice to keep the seat belt sign on for the entire duration of a flight.
It was a delight to return to flying in Europe where the sign was put on as and when needed!

If you bombard people with information it will, sooner or later, become utterly disregarded.
gcal is offline  
Old 26th Jan 2016, 19:38
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Everett, WA
Age: 64
Posts: 2,418
There is a difference in the acceptable risk (and liability) between the FA (employees) and passengers (customers).
That's the same reason that when you take your car into the repair shop, you're generally not allowed in the service area unless escorted.
tdracer is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2016, 09:08
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: The blasted heath
Posts: 238
@tdracer

That is it exactly.
gcal is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2016, 10:35
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Confoederatio Helvetica
Age: 64
Posts: 2,847
In the EU+ MC99 applies to all flights including domestic flights in Member States.

For international flights to/from US MC99 also applies (perhaps with a few minor exceptions where Warsaw continues to apply). Domestic US flights are subject to US laws.
ExXB is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2016, 12:08
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cloud 9
Posts: 2,878
How are F/A's supposed to do a through the cabin check that all punters are belted in if the F/A's are belted in themselves?

Do FA's undergo special "walking in turbulence" training?
I've known some "special training" in Ye Olde Kings Head in Santa Monica of salting their beer to stop them burping during flight ..... but no walking in turbulence training I'm afraid
Phileas Fogg is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2016, 15:41
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Cyprus
Posts: 291
Jack 111 ; Im a bit older than you but it was; with belt sign in auto, no smoking went off at gear retracted. Belts went off at flaps up (or" in" if you were really sad). Reverse happened for descent/ approach. We were all so highly paid in those days, we demanded full manual control over this vital issue and the auto position was never used. Didn't stop our cabin crew from over-riding this challenging Command Decision by permitting punters to visit the loo, regardless. Being a fully qualified amateur lawyer, I announced, on the PA, that ignoring seat/belt signs was, in fact, ignoring a lawful command and liable to litigation. Head of cabin crew told me I got lots of finger signs as people swept passed the FD door into the forward loo. Villains !
Gordomac is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2016, 16:49
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Florida and wherever my laptop is
Posts: 1,307
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
Are you saying that there should be no differentiation between how the seat belt signs apply to pax and F/As? How would that work?
If you read my original post I said that if the FAs continue meal/trolley service with hot drinks being served then the seatbelt light is obviously superfluous. If the FAs are merely doing a check that all belts are fastened then returning to their stations to strap in, then the seatbelt sign is likely to be real.

The more usual case is that the seatbelt light goes on and 3 hours later after a full meal service with hot drinks being passed over passengers, it is still on. Pax have every right to consider that it is meaningless. Those with 2 hour bladders will wait for the final trolley to pass and then visit the lavs and none of the FA's will stop them to tell them to return to their seats because the FA's don't believe the seatbelt light either.
Ian W is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2016, 19:20
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 49
Seat belt falsehood

Ian W

You are the only person who speaks sense on this seat belt topic.

The default position on any aircraft in flight is that pax are seated and belted, just like in an automobile. That is precautionary safety and it is never sufficiently policed in either transport mode. Lack of policing of the default is the root problem. Cabin crew the same when not carrying out work duties (but of course they all mill around in the servery, chatting and posing, no?)

If the seat belt sign is illuminated by the flight deck, that ought to indicate an escalation of hazard that only the flight deck is aware of, such as take-off, landing, turbulence ahead, technical problem, need to divert or a flight security issue. The seat belt sign ought to be replaced with a hazard warning to avoid doubt...."WARNING-SIT DOWN AND BELT UP"

It ought to apply to everyone, including the cabin crew, who should stow trolleys and sit down, and lav pax do the same. The default position of everyone belted up is then restored.

The experience of trillions of pax across the world over decades, is that the flight deck leaves the seat belt illuminated during meal service, sometimes for the whole journey, mostly with no turbulence, and no one believes it anymore.

That is not the fault of unruly pax, it is the fault of flight deck indolence across the industry.

One explanation I was given is that cabin crew are automatically insured as employees and pax are not insured if they leave their seat with the light on. Can anyone corroborate that?
enola-gay is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2016, 04:56
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cloud 9
Posts: 2,878
I recall once when I was travelling with Ukraine International and on a freebie business class upgrade.

We'd experienced some turbulence during which the seat belt sign went on, the turbulence had long since passed however the flight crew had clearly neglected to switch the sign off whilst I had been tucking in to the business class liquid refreshments and I needed to go to the toilet.

I called the F/A across, explained my predicament, she told me I could go until I pointed out to her that the sign was still on, she nipped in to the flight deck and problem solved.

Now pax need to frequent the toilet(s) throughout any flight and if the seat belt sign is permanently on, and we are to ignore it to use the toilet, then how are we to know when it is on for the sake of being on and when it is on for 'real'?

And, unless I'm doing something in particular, I always sit there with my seat belt loosely fastened.
Phileas Fogg is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2016, 12:41
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Nirvana..HAHA..just kidding but,if you can tell me where it is!
Posts: 339
For all the guys and gals who've been successfully doing this job,for the past 20 plus years,..Isn't it amazing how this topic still continues to bring up widely varying opinions....
Come on...common sense will guide you home,every time.

Ps.still...can't convince Mrs String to stay strapped in after that sign is switched off....maybe because she is from a certain country in South America..lol.

Last edited by Yaw String; 28th Jan 2016 at 13:02.
Yaw String is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2016, 12:53
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Paris
Age: 69
Posts: 254
What is the official bladder time?

Edmund
edmundronald is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.