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CRJ down in Sweden

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CRJ down in Sweden

Old 6th Feb 2016, 23:31
  #141 (permalink)  
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I have first hand experience (last summer) with the radar in that area operated by Norway, Sweden, and Finland. VFR below 10,000 feet, I was twice warned well in advance that my track could carry me into another nation's airspace, and this is unwelcomed. I did not violate any airspace, but admit that I was not taking it as seriously as the nations were, and I respect their right to assert their airspace.

For how "out in the middle of nowhere" that area appears, ATC sure know what's happening! We flew on a flight plan down the Russian/Finnish boarder, about a mile inside Finland at their extreme northern boarder, and Finnish ATC requested that I fly farther away from the boarder. I complied.
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Old 7th Feb 2016, 03:55
  #142 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting Tourist. Your stick figure mocks 'young earth-creationists', yet a couple of frames later he is praying to GOD, who is the young-earth creationist.
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Old 7th Feb 2016, 06:09
  #143 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, well done. You spotted that.
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Old 15th Feb 2016, 15:50
  #144 (permalink)  
 
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I'm a little puzzled by some of the postings in this thread. Commercial aircraft flying domestic flights in Norway routinely file flightplans that cross into Sweden or Finland en route to their destination. Look at the map how Norway is shaped. Choosing another route would burn a lot of extra fuel.

Sweden responded to the accident as per the agreement between Norway and Sweden, as they did when the Norwegian Air Force L-100 crashed a few years ago.
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Old 26th Feb 2016, 20:25
  #145 (permalink)  
 
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Any update here? There are an awful lot of 600s flying around out there...you figure if it were a problem with the aircraft systems, there would be a bulletin out. But it's hard to figure what else it could have been...
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Old 26th Feb 2016, 21:36
  #146 (permalink)  
 
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Flight recorders.

I'm surprised nothing has been said about the contents of the flight recorders.
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Old 27th Feb 2016, 23:43
  #147 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe they are waiting for the snow to melt so they can verify what is on the recorder.

Last edited by cappt; 28th Feb 2016 at 15:48.
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Old 28th Feb 2016, 15:58
  #148 (permalink)  
 
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Don't be tool, it was posted earlier. What is your malfunction?

Postflystyrten i Sverige: ? Vi må vente til bakken tiner - NRK Nordland - Lokale nyheter, TV og radio

https://translate.google.com/transla...-text=&act=url
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Old 28th Feb 2016, 17:11
  #149 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe they are waiting for the snow to melt so they can verify what is on the recorder.
They probably know fairly well what happened.
They probably have serious concerns in understanding why it happened.
So perhaps there may be some clues in parts of the wreckage that will help confirm what fault pathway occurred to cause loss of the aircraft.

Even with an aircraft as badly fragmented as this one is, you can find control system positional clues from 'witness marks' on adjacent wreckage.

And for HT's benefit, comments policing the English language are over the top on this web site.
We only need to understand the intent behind the post. In this case, cappt appears to be flying the CRJ, so he would really like to have answers to why this aircraft crashed.
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Old 28th Feb 2016, 19:52
  #150 (permalink)  

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I'm not going to scroll back, but wasn't it stated earlier in this thread that the FDR and CVR had been recovered, and a preliminary report would be out soon?
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Old 28th Feb 2016, 20:00
  #151 (permalink)  
 
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Yes I believe so. I'm not scrolling back either.
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Old 28th Feb 2016, 20:50
  #152 (permalink)  
 
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Re: NOT SCROLLING BACK

On Jan 26th 2016 the SHK reported that the investigation managed to read out both cockpit voice and flight data recorder, the CVR does contain the talks of the crew during the accident flight. The investigation is currently analysing and validating the recordings. A preliminary report is estimated to be released in a week or two.
Quote from AvHerald, Crash: West Atlantic Sweden CRJ2 near Akkajaure on Jan 8th 2016, lost height after emergency call
So they have had the data for slightly over a month at this time.
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Old 28th Feb 2016, 22:34
  #153 (permalink)  
 
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For non-scrollers.

This is the official investigation page for this event:

Investigations - Accident in the arctic north of Sweden to a Canadair CRJ 200 aircraft (SE-DUX)

Urgent news will be presented asap, otherwise we will have to wait until the official meeting to get an interim.

Then there are always journalists with connections.... I will update you when I find something!
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Old 28th Feb 2016, 22:47
  #154 (permalink)  
 
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Phoenix

Nose - not quite, too deep in the snow, need summer for 100% verification.
Tail - not to my knowledge.
Wingtips - not to my knowledge, but wings were def. located and parts of them can be seen on the pics.
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Old 7th Mar 2016, 22:12
  #155 (permalink)  
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Status report coming up (on Wednesday)

Onsdag presenteres tekniske funn fra Postflyulykken -itromso.no

Not too many details in the article, but there's a preliminary report coming in a couple of days. Might be worth keeping an eye open for that one.
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Old 8th Mar 2016, 11:38
  #156 (permalink)  
 
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In these times of outsourcing everything, it sometimes comes back to bite you. Related to this crash is the incompetence of some gouvernment agencies to get things right. Not only because they are incompetent but because the law demands of them to make the cheapest buy, unless you can motivate really REALLY well why you should not.

Räddningshelikoptern nådde inte fram ? fiasko vid haverilarm - Uppdrag Granskning | SVT.se

Swedish Sjöfartsverket (agency for marine activities, especially in the Baltic Sea) bought a brand new all-fancy awesome bling helicopter from Augusta Westland (AW139) that was supposed to do awe-inspiring awesome things. Well, it didn't happen that way.

The night this crash happened, this fancy piece of kit couldn't take off until 1:20 after being called for. Then the fuel froze after refuelling. Then the crew refused to take off.

Head of Sjöfartsverket blames this on many things. Like, "this was not our task" or "you can't expect us to ferry people with our new awesome toy". The most interesting thing was "well, this is a difficult terrain so we have to prepare accordingly". I can get that. But, why didn't you prepare already?

This is the reason the SVT (Swedish national television) helicopter was the first on the crash site. This is also the reason the Norwegian F16 was tasked to find the wreckage.

Helicopters that actually got to the place when needed were Norwegian and Swedish ambulance helicopters. It seems health care personnel is more prepared than personnel whose actual task it is to actually get involved in events like this.

When Sweden bought these helicopters for an insane amount of money (some three years ago), it was just because they motivated it REALLY well by saying that they were excellently built for arctic environments and would be super prepared for anything the northern Swedish winter ever could throw at them.

Oh well. Seems like TV crews are better equipped, maybe Sjöfartsverket should talk to SVT about helicopter buys in the future?

Last edited by MrSnuggles; 8th Mar 2016 at 11:40. Reason: refuelling
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Old 8th Mar 2016, 12:22
  #157 (permalink)  
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Snuggles,

Have you read Sjöfartsverkets response to media's 'investigation'? Watch the 8 minute video and time line of what happened that night. The FAQ section also answers lots of questions media never touched upon. SVT thought they could have a field day. State-owned media who could rather spend their energy on educating people than a tabloid look a like documentary.

Sjöfartsverket kommenterar Uppdrag gransknings uppgifter - Sjofartsverket
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Old 9th Mar 2016, 12:17
  #158 (permalink)  
 
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172_driver yes, sure sure, all kinds of explanations.

Anyway, update from Statens Haverikommission (SHK) this morning! Brand new from the press, not published in any paper yet!

?Besättningen reagerade och kopplade ur autopiloten? - P4 Norrbotten | Sveriges Radio

Ett larm aktiveras och vinkeln på höjdrodret ändras så att nosen sänks. Motorerna får för lågt oljetryck. En varning hörs på att det är hög lutningsvinkeln. Ett nödanrop kvitteras av flygledningen.
My translation:

An alarm is activated and the angle of horizontal stabiliser is changed so the nose is lowered. The engines gets too low oil pressure. An aural warning sounds, alerting for too high slope angle*. A mayday is recognised by ATC.

Men besättningen regarade på att något inte var som det skulle och kopplade ut autopiloten. Förloppet ska ha varit under en och en halv minut. [..] Man pratar om fyra värden som inte överenstämmer med flygplanets läge. [..] Bland annat om den information som piloterna har på sina skärmar överensstämde med varandra.
My translation:

The crew reacted on something out of the ordinary and disconnected the autopilot. The whole event took place in less than 90 seconds. [..] SHK is commenting that four values (from the black boxes, my remark) does not agree with the information about the location of the plane** [..] Among those (values) it is unclear if the information on the pilots' screens were in sync.

Något tydligt svar på vad som orskade olyckan finns inte men något har hänt så att planet häftigt har vickat ner nosen och snabbt tappat höjd.
My translation:

There is no clear answer on what happened, but something took place so the plane made a rapid nose down movement and quickly lost altitude.

------------

* Here I am not sure what they really mean, someone may have a better explanation for this. "lutning" = slope, "vinkel" = angle, but it doesn't make sense even in Swedish.

** What position of the plane they refer to is not clear. No explanation if it is radar coordinates before or during the descent or GPS coordinates for the crash or whatever.
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Old 9th Mar 2016, 12:49
  #159 (permalink)  
 
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Hanging on to MrSnuggles:


*) = lutningsvinkel = bank angle. ( = Alarm for high bank angle in the text reffered to)


**) = Läge = should be read as "Attitude". The four values that was not correct came from IRU1. Pitch and bank angle, the also mentioned magnetic track or heading and grounds speed. They was not crystal clear on this, but from the fact that all these values was from the same source( IRU1).
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Old 9th Mar 2016, 13:06
  #160 (permalink)  
 
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Well from that admittedly limited information it sounds like some dramatic structural failure... As for the why we don't seem much more informed at this stage.
Anything out of the CVR?
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