Alaska Lands on Taxiway in SEA..
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FlightDetent,
Are those things that look like lemons on the LIDO runway diagram depictions of RVR equipment?
If not, what are they?
Regardless, the LIDO chart is a big improvement over the FAA and Jepps charts.
Are those things that look like lemons on the LIDO runway diagram depictions of RVR equipment?
If not, what are they?
Regardless, the LIDO chart is a big improvement over the FAA and Jepps charts.
Last edited by wanabee777; 5th Jan 2016 at 12:41.
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cost of marking taxiway
wannabee said
Of course- but adding such markings/lights/ visual cues would cost money- which is obviously better spend on Port of Seattle directors salary and benefits. 
$179,966 ($92.29)
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SCHEDULE OF AUTHORIZED NON-REPRESENTED POSITION TITLES
SALARY RANGES EFFECTIVE JANUARY 1, 2015
Annual Base Salary Range (Hourly equivalent in parentheses)
https://www.portseattle.org/Jobs/Doc...ned_MASTER.pdf
The fact remains that this particular runway/taxiway configuration at SEATAC needs some type of enhanced visual cues in addition to the standard taxiway markings or there will continue to be recurrences.
$179,966 ($92.29)
Managing Director, Aviation
Midpoint
$224,972 ($115.37)
Deputy CEO
Maximum
$269,958 ($138.44)
SCHEDULE OF AUTHORIZED NON-REPRESENTED POSITION TITLES
SALARY RANGES EFFECTIVE JANUARY 1, 2015
Annual Base Salary Range (Hourly equivalent in parentheses)
https://www.portseattle.org/Jobs/Doc...ned_MASTER.pdf
Last edited by CONSO; 4th Jan 2016 at 18:36. Reason: typo-spacing
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i'm always amazed by this kind of mistake.
what about a briefing before (miscellaneous, runways, taxiways expected...) ?
I always check landing marks or black tires traces on runways.
Mistakes happen to anybody but come on, not all ! especially these ones.
what about a briefing before (miscellaneous, runways, taxiways expected...) ?
I always check landing marks or black tires traces on runways.
Mistakes happen to anybody but come on, not all ! especially these ones.
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CONSO:
That is the date Jeppesen issued the chart. Note at the top in bold text, it because effective 10 DEC, same as the FAA chart.
Do you fly with Jeppesen charts?
please note date on chart of 4 dec 15
Do you fly with Jeppesen charts?
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I read one report of a previous landing on the taxiway at KSEA that mentioned a recent rain caused the sun to be reflected off all the paved surfaces which blotted out ALL markings.
We know this thread's incident happened about half an hour after sunrise. If the surface conditions were the same then perhaps factors in previous incidents were repeated.
We know this thread's incident happened about half an hour after sunrise. If the surface conditions were the same then perhaps factors in previous incidents were repeated.
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I was looking at the lovely large picture that HighAndFlighty posted for us. Maybe it is just the angle at which the photo was taken, but it looks to me that the chevrons and markings on 16L are faded and not very visible, where as chevrons and markings are much clearer on 16C and 16R. Landing mostly visually myself (due to the fact that most airports I land at have few or no landing aids, let alone runway markings), I think that maybe I have an idea what these pilots may have been thinking. Of-course, I may also be wrong. I am speaking from my own experience now.
My speculation is this, and I welcome your input on this: Because the markings on16L aren’t so clear as far as I can see on the photo, and the markings on 16C and 16R clear and very easy to see, I think they must have assumed that taxiway Tango was 16C. I don't think that they would have seen the runway numbers before they were practically over them, if they were looking for them. How many of you do when you are positive that the “runway” you are lined up on is the correct one? I would have been looking for visual cues rather than runway numbers.
The report will prove me right or wrong. Lets wait and see.
My speculation is this, and I welcome your input on this: Because the markings on16L aren’t so clear as far as I can see on the photo, and the markings on 16C and 16R clear and very easy to see, I think they must have assumed that taxiway Tango was 16C. I don't think that they would have seen the runway numbers before they were practically over them, if they were looking for them. How many of you do when you are positive that the “runway” you are lined up on is the correct one? I would have been looking for visual cues rather than runway numbers.
The report will prove me right or wrong. Lets wait and see.
Last edited by PPL Hobbyist; 4th Jan 2016 at 20:55.
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I recently heard the FO speak about the incident. Here are some relevant aspects of the event from his point of view:
It was soon after sun rise. The sun was low and in their face.
It had recently rained, the runways/taxiways were damp.
There were multiple cloud layers which contributed to a bright glare.
The glare and water made runway lights and marking invisible.
The new, center runway has virtually NO tire marks on it yet.
They had departed KORD at 0600 CST (0400 PST) that's a 0200 PST wake up.
He does not believe fatigue was a factor in his case.
He did not enter the new runway in the FMC.
He did switch LOC freq. but assumed it was still inop when it did not center.
He got tunnel vision and did not look right or left to take in the big picture.
The touchdown was normal and they taxied to the gate.
The Capt. was PF and has well over over a decade with ASA.
The FO has less than 2 years with ASA.
It was soon after sun rise. The sun was low and in their face.
It had recently rained, the runways/taxiways were damp.
There were multiple cloud layers which contributed to a bright glare.
The glare and water made runway lights and marking invisible.
The new, center runway has virtually NO tire marks on it yet.
They had departed KORD at 0600 CST (0400 PST) that's a 0200 PST wake up.
He does not believe fatigue was a factor in his case.
He did not enter the new runway in the FMC.
He did switch LOC freq. but assumed it was still inop when it did not center.
He got tunnel vision and did not look right or left to take in the big picture.
The touchdown was normal and they taxied to the gate.
The Capt. was PF and has well over over a decade with ASA.
The FO has less than 2 years with ASA.
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He did switch LOC freq. but assumed it was still inop when it did not center.
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It was soon after sun rise. The sun was low and in their face.
It had recently rained, the runways/taxiways were damp.
There were multiple cloud layers which contributed to a bright glare.
The glare and water made runway lights and marking invisible.
It had recently rained, the runways/taxiways were damp.
There were multiple cloud layers which contributed to a bright glare.
The glare and water made runway lights and marking invisible.
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Slightly puzzled here. Is the sun shining directly into your face just after it rises at 0830 local when lining up on Rwy 16?
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Slightly puzzled here. Is the sun shining directly into your face just after it rises at 0830 local when lining up on Rwy 16?
Sunrise Today: 7:54 AM 122° Southeast
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And moves 15 degrees per hour....
Maybe change of runways with aircrafts on final when flying against a low sun, should be taken into consideration before given?
Could be a part of ATC procedure when danger is landing on TWY/wrong RWY... That would be nursing pilots a little though..
Maybe change of runways with aircrafts on final when flying against a low sun, should be taken into consideration before given?
Could be a part of ATC procedure when danger is landing on TWY/wrong RWY... That would be nursing pilots a little though..
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Pilots are in charge. ATC offers an option. Airmanship decides if the pilot should accept it or stick with Plan A. It is not an order. B757 AA in Cali is a classic example. If they're stayed with a relaxed plan A in stead of a rushed last minute Plan B there would have been a happier outcome.
I read so many stories of pilots getting hot & hi, even making a G/A, because they accepted an ATC short cut to finals. Daft.
Let's make sure PIC is really in command of the safe operation of the ac/. ATC manages it as a team member; PIC decides if it is acceptable under all criteria.
I read so many stories of pilots getting hot & hi, even making a G/A, because they accepted an ATC short cut to finals. Daft.
Let's make sure PIC is really in command of the safe operation of the ac/. ATC manages it as a team member; PIC decides if it is acceptable under all criteria.
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Just for info, taking NWStu's data source and assuming that it and Google Earth have the same True North reference, this is the situation about 2.5 miles out... No judgements implied about glare etc, but RAT 5's last comment is right on the nail.
[/IMG]Just for info, taking NWStu's data source and assuming that it and Google Earth have the same True North reference, this is the situation about 2.5 miles out... No judgements implied about glare etc, but RAT 5's last comment is right on the nail.
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Perhaps not your intention but your depiction is confusing slast. It gives a totally wrong impression. The direction might be right but the Sun is in the southern hemisphere and low. It would without doubt a) be in the crew's line of vision and b) create glare on a wet surface.