Turkish F16 shoots down unidentified aircraft in their airspace.
Paxing All Over The World
Perhaps a video of pilots being shot, whilst parachuting to 'safety' was considered unkind and cruel? Just because the video is available on other sites, does not mean that a pilot's discussion forum wants to host it.
Why is that?
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17 seconds
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status...rc=twsrc%5Etfw
Is there enough time for intercept, lock and missile travel (at M2.5), all inside Turkey's airspace?
Is there enough time for intercept, lock and missile travel (at M2.5), all inside Turkey's airspace?
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Analysis of the Turkish behavior by Gen. Tom McInerney on Fox News, calling the action overly aggressive
If a former NORAD commander interviewed by Fox says the action was unjustified, it surely was...
What will Putin do? He has to do something in order to maintain his image of "strength and power" at home and abroad.
If a former NORAD commander interviewed by Fox says the action was unjustified, it surely was...
What will Putin do? He has to do something in order to maintain his image of "strength and power" at home and abroad.
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Bosphorus and Russian access
by Photonic http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5...ml#post9190645
Bosphorus is a free international waterway, turkey preventing its use by anyone would be illegal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_waters
Bosphorus is a free international waterway, turkey preventing its use by anyone would be illegal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_waters
Several international treaties have established freedom of navigation on semi-enclosed seas.
The Copenhagen Convention of 1857 opened access to the Baltic by abolishing the Sound Dues and making the Danish Straits an international waterway free to all commercial and military shipping.
Several conventions have opened the Bosporus and Dardanelles to shipping. The latest, the Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Turkish Straits, maintains the straits' status as an international waterway.
Other international treaties have opened up rivers, which are not traditionally international waterways.
The Danube River is an international waterway so that landlocked Austria, Hungary, Serbia, and Slovakia can have secure access to the Black Sea.
The Copenhagen Convention of 1857 opened access to the Baltic by abolishing the Sound Dues and making the Danish Straits an international waterway free to all commercial and military shipping.
Several conventions have opened the Bosporus and Dardanelles to shipping. The latest, the Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Turkish Straits, maintains the straits' status as an international waterway.
Other international treaties have opened up rivers, which are not traditionally international waterways.
The Danube River is an international waterway so that landlocked Austria, Hungary, Serbia, and Slovakia can have secure access to the Black Sea.
Last edited by oldoberon; 25th Nov 2015 at 00:27.
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I fail to see how Russia will not gain enormous political advantage from this shoot down incident. Russia has been mounting air strikes in Syria in support of President Assad and the official Syrian Government Forces. NATO has been selectively arming various rebel groups fighting against President Assad as well as ISIS and has actively been trying to overthrow the Syrian government.
So whatever way you care to look at it, by shooting down a Russian fighter, Turkey (or Turkish supported rebels) have lost any moral high ground they might have claimed. They have to all intents and purposes shot down an allied aircraft in the fight against ISIS, which makes them, and any supporting NATO countries the bad guys.
Whatever the truth of the incursion into Turkish airspace, the missile that brought down the aircraft was fired from within Syrian airspace and the crash site was within Syria.
The Turks have asserted their authority over their airspace, but made themselves look very bad in doing so. Russia has tragically lost two pilots, but in the overall scheme of things have come out massively ahead in terms of political kudos.
So whatever way you care to look at it, by shooting down a Russian fighter, Turkey (or Turkish supported rebels) have lost any moral high ground they might have claimed. They have to all intents and purposes shot down an allied aircraft in the fight against ISIS, which makes them, and any supporting NATO countries the bad guys.
Whatever the truth of the incursion into Turkish airspace, the missile that brought down the aircraft was fired from within Syrian airspace and the crash site was within Syria.
The Turks have asserted their authority over their airspace, but made themselves look very bad in doing so. Russia has tragically lost two pilots, but in the overall scheme of things have come out massively ahead in terms of political kudos.
Last edited by G0ULI; 24th Nov 2015 at 23:57. Reason: spelling
Analysis of the Turkish behavior by Gen. Tom McInerney on Fox News, calling the action overly aggressive
If a former NORAD commander interviewed by Fox says the action was unjustified, it surely was...
If a former NORAD commander interviewed by Fox says the action was unjustified, it surely was...
I am a retired Commander. Likewise add a grain of salt to mine, but I have less to gain as Fox won't pay me thousands of dollars for my two bits.
Question to PPRuNe: what is the impact of this uncertainty to air travel in the region?
Discussion of that is surely on topic.
by Photonic http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5...ml#post9190645
Bosphorus is a free international waterway, turkey preventing its use by anyonne would be illegal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_waters
Bosphorus is a free international waterway, turkey preventing its use by anyonne would be illegal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_waters
That convention, however, doesn't apply all that much to air power and flying beyond how it applies to aircraft embarked on ships that transit the straits.
For PPRuNe purposes, we might be better off addressing the influence on air operations, air travel, and the airspace in the region as matters of interest to the intended audience.
Just a thought.
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lone wolf:
the long term issues are frightening. Turkey has declared itself a supporter of ISIS. Russia is now going to go after turkeys child -ISIS even harder.
Whatever one says about sovereignty, the russian aircraft vectors were never pointed at a Turkish target, in fact whichever map you use, the russian aircraft was exiting Turkish airspace when it was hit.
If Turkey tries this again, then watch out.
As an aside, Erdogan's son had better have a good bodyguard.
The ripple effect of this will take a week or two to play out, but the longer term issues are beginning to concern me.
Whatever one says about sovereignty, the russian aircraft vectors were never pointed at a Turkish target, in fact whichever map you use, the russian aircraft was exiting Turkish airspace when it was hit.
If Turkey tries this again, then watch out.
As an aside, Erdogan's son had better have a good bodyguard.
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They have to all intents and purposes shot down an allied aircraft in the fight against ISIS, which makes them, and any supporting NATO countries the bad guys.
(1) Russian planes have been striking Turkmen targets in Latakia province near the Turkish border.
(2) Turkmen have been fighting alongside the Free Syrian Army (the "moderate" rebels), not ISIS.
(3) Nor is ISIS at all operating along that stretch of the border.
(4) Russian maneuvers in this area are entirely about protecting Assad's rear, not about the fight against ISIS.
(5) Turkey's strike is politically motivated indeed, but intended to deter Russia from attacking their ethnic kin.
(6) Conclusion, this attack had nothing to do with ISIS, one way or the other.
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Originally Posted by RYFQB
Hardly a NATO spokesperson, but I wouldn't think the Secretary General's home country put a dissenter on the screen either.
The Russian Federation would also be wise to accept that right and might are not necessarily the best of bed-fellows.
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Isis ?
Guys ,
Short and simple, no isis military groups are existing at that vicinity( north syria) , just el nusra (syrian turkish sunni group armed by usa and turkey ,offically known by nato against esad regime) and pyd ( kurd groups) are positioned there. Russia has been carried out air strikes to them last one month and violated Turkey's border dosen of time or more.. It is clear that Turkey as Nato member wont shoot down a Russian Fighter without States confirmation.
So for the ones who mention that Turks are trying make shield to protect Isis is
...
Try to be more sphecific...
Turkey is not over-reactive ; remember that syria shoot down Turkish fighter 2 years ago because of same reason. there is no squawk code of fighters to identify its russian or syrian, even doest not matter...
Short and simple, no isis military groups are existing at that vicinity( north syria) , just el nusra (syrian turkish sunni group armed by usa and turkey ,offically known by nato against esad regime) and pyd ( kurd groups) are positioned there. Russia has been carried out air strikes to them last one month and violated Turkey's border dosen of time or more.. It is clear that Turkey as Nato member wont shoot down a Russian Fighter without States confirmation.
So for the ones who mention that Turks are trying make shield to protect Isis is
...Try to be more sphecific...
Turkey is not over-reactive ; remember that syria shoot down Turkish fighter 2 years ago because of same reason. there is no squawk code of fighters to identify its russian or syrian, even doest not matter...
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I have heard on 121.5 at least two/three times in last few months ,flying into Istanbul ,military crew speaking in English asking for an aircraft to change its course or action will be taken.
My 2 cents.
My 2 cents.
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absolutely correct umitatl, a good response to Sunfish's whitewashing of NATO from its relation to ISIS/IS or wharever f#@$.
ISIS has emerged out of nowhere in February 2014 just because the battle for Syria got stuck/stalemated, in concert with Ukraine "crises" directed by Victoria Nuland. A "casus bellum" was required to continue the battle in a more covert manner hence ISIS's emergence to provide that cover.
This attack together with the metrojet's attack's beg's for a response from Russia. And so they will deliver this , see history.
A possible scenario I can think of is 1 response to Turkish airforce/ground troops and 1 to the participating ME airliners (including ISisrael).
Certainly very interesting times ahead. Poking a bear or even a cat for that matter is not a good idea. The reaction will be in direct proportion to the size of the animal.
ISIS has emerged out of nowhere in February 2014 just because the battle for Syria got stuck/stalemated, in concert with Ukraine "crises" directed by Victoria Nuland. A "casus bellum" was required to continue the battle in a more covert manner hence ISIS's emergence to provide that cover.
This attack together with the metrojet's attack's beg's for a response from Russia. And so they will deliver this , see history.
A possible scenario I can think of is 1 response to Turkish airforce/ground troops and 1 to the participating ME airliners (including ISisrael).
Certainly very interesting times ahead. Poking a bear or even a cat for that matter is not a good idea. The reaction will be in direct proportion to the size of the animal.
