Turkish F16 shoots down unidentified aircraft in their airspace.
If the transmissions were made on guard it will have been monitored and recorded by hundreds of units and (if on VHF guard) will be on the tapes of any civil aircraft within 200 miles. The truth will be out there and will be on record.
It wouldn't take much digging for a good journo to seek verification of these recordings. Why don't they do this instead of just recycling the propaganda from all sides.
It wouldn't take much digging for a good journo to seek verification of these recordings. Why don't they do this instead of just recycling the propaganda from all sides.
Now we have a Turkish convoy destroyed, and Russians refusing to meet with Turkish diplomats:
https://mobile.twitter.com/EjmAlrai/...05247003500547
https://mobile.twitter.com/EjmAlrai/...05247003500547
Now we have a Turkish convoy destroyed, and Russians refusing to meet with Turkish diplomats
@russian_market
#BOOM 39 businessmen from Turkey arrested at Agriculture Exhibition in Krasnodar and will be deported from Russia
things are quickly going downhill, and what's important - S400 has been deployed in Lattakia today and I don't doubt for a second Russians will use it the same moment any turkish plane touches syrian border
if things escalate further I hope authorities will quickly close the airspace wherever S400 reaches, they should learn the lesson from MH17
I see the UK govt is today proposing strike missions in Syria, alongside what the Russians have been doing.
How can we be sure that the Turkish AF won't shoot those down either.
Regarding the Guard "tape" released, there must have been western civil aircraft within range at the time (a quick review of FlightRadar24 will indicate which ones) whose crews, even if their own tapes have been overwritten, will surely recall hearing this on 121.5 and can make statements of what they heard - or didn't.
How can we be sure that the Turkish AF won't shoot those down either.
Regarding the Guard "tape" released, there must have been western civil aircraft within range at the time (a quick review of FlightRadar24 will indicate which ones) whose crews, even if their own tapes have been overwritten, will surely recall hearing this on 121.5 and can make statements of what they heard - or didn't.
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WRT Syria (and, specifically, the Russians with their missile system), what nationalities constitute the 'enemy'?
ie, who would Russia be targetting?
ie, who would Russia be targetting?
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All of us can speculate till the cows come home but one thing you can be 100% sure of is that some nations Air Force had an AWACS in the vicinity of this incident and knows exactly what happened down to the nano-second. Whether they divulge what they know is another story.
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I never actually considered that Spooky, but I think you are absolutely dead on. You can also be 100% certain that any AWAC's aircraft in the vicinity would have belonged to a NATO nation. Somehow I very much doubt that anything will be said - publicly at least anyway.
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That is pretty much what the NATO Secretary General said on Day 1 during the Q&A session -- that they had additional intel from "Allies" which matched Turkey's version of events.
But of course, there is no way for us to verify any data or even any assumptions behind the statement...
But of course, there is no way for us to verify any data or even any assumptions behind the statement...
Q (CNN): The Russians are saying the plane was shot down over Syrian territory and never went into Turkish territory. Are you convinced that it was shot down indeed over Turkish airspace and that Turkish airspace was indeed violate?
Secretary General: The Allied assessments we have got from several Allies during the day are consistent with information we have been provided with from Turkey. So the information we have from other Allies is consistent with what we have got from Turkey.
Secretary General: The Allied assessments we have got from several Allies during the day are consistent with information we have been provided with from Turkey. So the information we have from other Allies is consistent with what we have got from Turkey.
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Wedge Tails
Turkey has at least four 737 AWACS Wedge Tails and it's pretty hard to imagine that they were not deployed and I would bet that the USAF had at least one if not more working the region on that day. NOTHING slips by these operators with out being tracked. Maybe not for public consumption but none the less it is covered.
there is a chance both were right in that respect, turkish pilots issued warnings but russians didn't expect any communication on that channel and didn't listen to it at all
in such situation where you get no response from the other side it's sensible to assume they don't listen to that frequency and visually check with them before firing, not like they were going to attack turkey...
in such situation where you get no response from the other side it's sensible to assume they don't listen to that frequency and visually check with them before firing, not like they were going to attack turkey...
I'm sure Olympus radar will have some kind of trace and recordings of what went on too. I'm guessing we are sitting on this stuff as we don't want to give any capabilities away.As if the Russkies didn't already know.
Hunterboy wrote
Olympus radar was withdrawn back in the mid 1990s. Mobile radars have been deployed over the years for extended periods, but I don't think there is one deployed on Cyprus at the moment?
http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...ml#post8033157
I'm sure Olympus radar will have some kind of trace and recordings of what went on too.
http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...ml#post8033157
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The Turkish army has suspended flights over Syria as part of an ongoing joint military campaign with the United States against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) after it shot down a Russian jetfighter, sparking an unprecedented crisis between Ankara and Moscow.
Turkey suspends Syria flights after crisis with Russia - MIDEAST
Turkey suspends Syria flights after crisis with Russia - MIDEAST
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Having listened to the 121.5 warnings recording I would suggest that even if the Russians heard it they would have found it impossible to understand!
I listened to the version in the Torygraph knowing what was being said and could barely understand what was being yelled.
If the SU-24 crew were on a target run they would have no chance to understand the warning(s) and disregarded it as background noise.
I am not taking a side here, I think both parties are at fault. Sadly both parties don't exactly have cultures where accepting any blame is the norm.
Fear it's going to get a lot worse shortly.
I listened to the version in the Torygraph knowing what was being said and could barely understand what was being yelled.
If the SU-24 crew were on a target run they would have no chance to understand the warning(s) and disregarded it as background noise.
I am not taking a side here, I think both parties are at fault. Sadly both parties don't exactly have cultures where accepting any blame is the norm.
Fear it's going to get a lot worse shortly.
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Just to follow up on something in the article that Kulverstukas linked
(source: Turkey suspends Syria flights after crisis with Russia - MIDEAST, accessed 27/11/2015)
In the quote, which I do note was not attributed to an identifiable source, it is said that the plane that was shot down was on a heading towards Hatay.
Even taking the Turkish published maps, the plane they shot down was on a heading AWAY from Hatay, (Silvertate posted the image here : http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5...ml#post9190282)
I'm more than used to the stories being told by various participants in a situation diverging from each other, but it seems here that the story as presented by Turkey itself, without listening to the Russians isn't consistent with itself.
“Despite the agreement with Russia, the fact that both warplanes did not communicate through this channel caused Turkish pilots to profile these planes as ‘Profile: Syria aircraft,’ and consider the situation a ‘serious threat’ as part of the military rules of engagement. One of the aircraft returned to Syrian airspace but the other that insisted on heading toward Hatay was downed by the F16s,” a source said.
In the quote, which I do note was not attributed to an identifiable source, it is said that the plane that was shot down was on a heading towards Hatay.
Even taking the Turkish published maps, the plane they shot down was on a heading AWAY from Hatay, (Silvertate posted the image here : http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5...ml#post9190282)
I'm more than used to the stories being told by various participants in a situation diverging from each other, but it seems here that the story as presented by Turkey itself, without listening to the Russians isn't consistent with itself.
