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BREAKING NEWS: airliner missing within Egyptian FIR

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BREAKING NEWS: airliner missing within Egyptian FIR

Old 7th Nov 2015, 09:55
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Daily Mail (front page) tomorrow reporting that the cockpit crew of a Thompson flight on August 23rdsaw a missile pass within 1000 ft of their aircraft whilst near SES.
Interesting that the UK CAA kept quiet about this. I have certainly not heard of it.

Thomson flight with 189 passengers dodged missile above Sharm El Sheikh | Daily Mail Online

One wonders what the priorities of the CAA are. I reported to the UK CAA about eau de cologne causing fires in cockpits, like the Egyptair B772 in 2011. But they would not even acknowledge my report, even when sent to the head of the CAA.

What are the CAA for, if they will not act on reports? Why do we bother with MORs?
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Old 7th Nov 2015, 09:59
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ISIS video and camera capability

I took this photo /www.flickr.com/photos/peamasher/6574265697/in/photolist-b1WQ9z with a Panasonic FZ-28 bridge camera which has a maximum zoom of 476 mm in 35mm film terms. The El Al B747-400 was at 35000', somewhere near Luton according to FR24, and I photographed it from my home in Aylesbury, Bucks.

On another occasion, using the camera as a telescope, I could easily read 'Emirates' on the underside of a Dublin bound B777, just south of Manchester.
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Old 7th Nov 2015, 10:00
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CVR location questions

A number of posters have questioned CVR/FDR locations, numbers and backup power. First issue is that this is restrained by costs. The operators will resist anything that adds to costs (this includes weight). The take up of solid state digital (soild stste is the recording medium, traditional "digital" FDRs use magnetic tape) recorders is because they are cheaper to maintain (no moving parts). With solid state digital you can easily have a combined CVR/FDR, but this "puts all your eggs in one basket". The sensible solution roposed by the regulators and used on the latest aircraft is to have two combined CVR/FDRs one at the front and one at the rear of the aircraft. This gives the best of both worlds, still only 2 recorders to pay for, better chance of one surviving and you only have to find one to get all the data. There are proposals to mandate short back-up power supplies to capture data after power loss but again it's costs, particuarly lifetime costs - batteries require maintenance- that i producing resistance. There are also proposals for cockpit video recorders, crashworthy or otherwise, but that's a whole other issue.
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Old 7th Nov 2015, 10:10
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tatelyle, no it can't at least thousands of regional media and whole internet is out of control. And even last legislations about security on military casualties makes huge wave of discontent.

I deny any possibilities that if any news agency (except, may be, 1st TV channel and Vesti24) receive letter from ISIS they will not publish it immediately. I also think this two also will publish it but with caveat emptor
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Old 7th Nov 2015, 10:20
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How can anyone who has seen that "explosion" in the video POSSIBLY think that is a real video?? Do you think that the video of the aerobatic aircraft landing after its wing has fallen off is genuine too? And even that is a better quality fake than this example.

I was hoping the penny would have dropped by now but obviously it hasn't. Regardless of whether ISIS are responsible for the actual accident (and it's certainly looking possible) that video is a fake, absolutely no doubt about it. The explosion doesn't even look remotely realistic.
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Old 7th Nov 2015, 10:29
  #1586 (permalink)  
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The explosion doesn't even look remotely realistic.
And how many observers here have seen a real explosion.
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Old 7th Nov 2015, 10:32
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I too believe the image is a fake and hope it is proven that way.

Cheap Canon SX200 compact camera with 12x zoom plus some cropping (not much as the resolution of this camera is too low).
January 1st 2012.
A380 at cruising altitude over Krnov, CZ
The original photo shown full screen clearly identifies the airline (SQ) which I then cross-checked with FR24 when back in the house (SIN-LHR I recall).

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Old 7th Nov 2015, 10:37
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what is that picture with the notes on it all about?
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Old 7th Nov 2015, 10:40
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Livesinafield , Seems pilot exams or check preparations

Title reads Section 1 Programme 2 Example 1 and 2 to lower the minimum.

TASK 2 30h300 200 m. TakeOff. when lowered to the SAT II, provided that the there was held 6 FPS landings at simulator for the preceding 6 month CAT-I and 1 TO in the same period with the visibility on the runway of less than 400 m ...

Last edited by Kulverstukas; 7th Nov 2015 at 11:05.
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Old 7th Nov 2015, 10:41
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It appears to be notes on ILS procedures.
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Old 7th Nov 2015, 10:46
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@GroundedSpanner

Very clearly you have never ever dealt with ILFC. I have.

If anyone, THEY are in the aircraft business, more so than many of the airlines. The A330 design owes its final form (and success) to Steven Udvar-Hazy who told them that they either build it to his specs, or he will not buy any. They were elbow deep in the 787/350 design process as well, being one of the largest customers for aircraft manufacturers.

ILFC would have supervised that repair very carefully, more so than the operating airline. That being said, flaws can remain no matter how carefully the repair was planned and supervised.
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Old 7th Nov 2015, 10:56
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Originally Posted by Kulverstukas
For question about ACT fitted...

Many thanks, that's about the most relevant piece of firm new information to surface in the past 2-3 days. Clearly C/N 663 had an ACT fitted, that would much better explain the in-flight fire despite the seemingly intact wings and center section.
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Old 7th Nov 2015, 10:58
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Pontus Navigator so you need to have seen something in real life now to know if it is real or not? By that logic when I went to watch FC Barcelona play last year I never should have recognised Lionel Messi or Luis Suarez because I'd never seen them in the flesh before.

I've seen video footage of plenty of "real" explosions thanks, just as I've seen my share of CGI ones to compare them with. I happen to recognise the difference, especially when the light sources and shadows and propagation are all wrong.
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Old 7th Nov 2015, 11:17
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Security checks: former Ben Gurion security boss aims at pax, not load

Former Ben Gurion security chief, Rafi Sela, gave an interview to the Swiss German News portal Watson, making the following points (in German) :

a) no engine explosion

b) smuggling a bomb on board is incredibly easy, in the U.S. too

c) there is no hope checking efficiently cabin bags

d) better check pax and airport employees behaviour

e) cameras and computers can sort out 80% of the people having access to the A/C

f) halting, searching and asking the 20% remaining brings more results than shoeless pax or forbidding a more than 50 ml bootle of water

The interview might be biased because Rafi Sela earns his living in the security business, but it's worth reading if you can do it in German.

Last edited by ettore; 7th Nov 2015 at 11:26. Reason: typo
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Old 7th Nov 2015, 11:30
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Video by ISIS

Video was released very shortly after the incident, very little information was available to the public including to ISIS in the Sinai Province when video was released.
The video could therefore be genuine, maybe we will never know, it does not matter, some facts: officially, when the video was initially released, the authorities discounted the fact that the plane was shot down by a missile but the original message from ISIS did not mention a missile at all, some translations were in fact incorrect, I understand the exact translation is the one below which could indicate a bomb (and not a missile) as it seems to be now the official cause; this means that officially the video has not been declared fake by anybody. It could be indeed very genuine.
In any case the video will not change the fact that this was very likely a bomb in the cargo hold. Very likely bomb was planted by somebody with easy access to the aircraft who was not on board. If a £20 note can let you completely bypass security checks at that airport (proven) imagine what £1,000 can do. Easy, easy, easy.
Message from ISIS was later re-translated as follows (no mention of missile):
“Soldiers of the Caliphate were able to bring down a Russian plane above Sinai Province with at least 220 Russian crusaders aboard. They were all killed, praise be to God. O Russians, you and your allies take note that you are not safe in Muslims lands or their skies.”

“The killing of dozens daily in Syria with bombs from your planes will bring woe to you. Just as you are killing others, you too will be killed, God willing.”

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Old 7th Nov 2015, 11:35
  #1596 (permalink)  
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Plastic, I didn't say real-life with you present at the scene but that you had seen genuine explosions as I think many people will be influenced by the Hollywood version where Harrison Ford can out run the fire front.

I was of course questioning your experience.

I just looked at that explosion again and would not like to assert that it was fake. Fireball development was uniform, rapid, and circular as you would expect where there is no tamper. Its duration is also consistent.

What you cannot confirm from the video is that it was not a composite image. Slow speed analysis would show its development.
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Old 7th Nov 2015, 11:41
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Video Timing

I'm not smart enough to figure out whether the video is real or not.

However, the question of the timing and placement to get the video may not be as complicated as one might think.

How does anyone know that one of the passengers may have been a suicide bomber. He/She may have been instructed to push "the button" at a precise time.

I am assuming that this flight route may have a fairly regular track, so once takeoff time was known, it would have been fairly easy to have videographers, maybe multiple, in the right locations.

Just my $.02....
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Old 7th Nov 2015, 11:44
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There could well be some teenager with a video editor out there sniggering at this discussion. Too much black smoke, unburnt carbon, much too quickly. Reason the video doesn't lovingly show the descent ? Fake would become obvious.
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Old 7th Nov 2015, 11:45
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To this point, I still have not seen any evidence in the pictures we have for a bomb exploding, and more for a failing HS imho.
Also, the video is fake, very easy to make in a video game and film from the screen.
A lot of hear say and false flags till now, where all parties leaking info need another outcome to look good or gain some political advantace.
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Old 7th Nov 2015, 11:45
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@Pontius

According to Rafi Sela interview in Watson (my previous post), El Al never carry pax and cargo on a same plane. Could be a source of inspiration for more security (and more flying) ahead.
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