BREAKING NEWS: airliner missing within Egyptian FIR
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Cyber, possibly, but you should never read across the norm for one carrier/country to another.
Andrasz........"It is hard to judge whether the UK etc. and now Russian government reactions are based on any real intelligence or they are just the usual willy waving exercises."
Oh pleeeeeese! Stop it.
Oh pleeeeeese! Stop it.
Last edited by Simplythebeast; 6th Nov 2015 at 15:38.
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Perhaps the family were allocated the exit row on check in then moved once on board putting them at the back of the plane??
Just because they are allocated a specific seat at check-in doesn't mean they were actually sat there.
Just because they are allocated a specific seat at check-in doesn't mean they were actually sat there.
Quote: Debris Piece direct below 2L must be very interessting
_________
I'm not certain but there does appear to be a vast blackened breach in the fuselage to the bottom right of your picture, and possibly what appears to be a large amount of peeled out skin just behind that?
I might not be seeing it correctly.
_________
I'm not certain but there does appear to be a vast blackened breach in the fuselage to the bottom right of your picture, and possibly what appears to be a large amount of peeled out skin just behind that?
I might not be seeing it correctly.
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It's now being reported that "Egyptian authorities say a bomb is the most plausible reason for last weekend's deadly Russian jet crash."
Metrojet Plane Crash: Egyptian Authorities Say Bomb Is Most Plausible Scenario as Russia Halts Flights - ABC News
Also, various British media are reporting that the Egyptians say they don't have enough storage space for all the British travelers' luggage and that's why the British planes are being turned back/diverted from Sharm.
Metrojet Plane Crash: Egyptian Authorities Say Bomb Is Most Plausible Scenario as Russia Halts Flights - ABC News
Also, various British media are reporting that the Egyptians say they don't have enough storage space for all the British travelers' luggage and that's why the British planes are being turned back/diverted from Sharm.
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I think that the location of the toddlers body away from the crash site has been overstated by media outlets and its actually nearer the main crash site than 20 miles. There was only one ‘event’ that was indicated by the FR24 data.
For what it is worth, I now unfortunately think that it will turn out to be a small to medium sized bomb in the aft cargo bay, resulting in the structural failure and disintegration of the rear fuselage (note the pictures of the ‘peeled’ roof of the rear fuselage without fire damage and seats still attached to structural bearings) and detachment of the tail with damage from disintegrated fuselage parts.
The front fuselage and wings unable to fly on, lost horizontal speed and fell near vertically rotating and pitching as it went. At some point prior to impact ignited (causing sooting to engine intake), with an additional fireball on the ground.
For what it is worth, I now unfortunately think that it will turn out to be a small to medium sized bomb in the aft cargo bay, resulting in the structural failure and disintegration of the rear fuselage (note the pictures of the ‘peeled’ roof of the rear fuselage without fire damage and seats still attached to structural bearings) and detachment of the tail with damage from disintegrated fuselage parts.
The front fuselage and wings unable to fly on, lost horizontal speed and fell near vertically rotating and pitching as it went. At some point prior to impact ignited (causing sooting to engine intake), with an additional fireball on the ground.
@SimplyTB
Call me cynical, but I have had some (unintentional) insights into how government works. As Sir Humphrey once famously said it, never believe anything the government says unless it is officially denied.
I am not saying it was NOT a bomb (on the balance of probabilities it was), but I'm saying that because of what I see and understand about the facts as we know them now, and not because of any government action motivated by second, third and fourth agendas. As anyone with some insight into aviation security knows, Sharm is about the most secure airport in the world right now.
Call me cynical, but I have had some (unintentional) insights into how government works. As Sir Humphrey once famously said it, never believe anything the government says unless it is officially denied.
I am not saying it was NOT a bomb (on the balance of probabilities it was), but I'm saying that because of what I see and understand about the facts as we know them now, and not because of any government action motivated by second, third and fourth agendas. As anyone with some insight into aviation security knows, Sharm is about the most secure airport in the world right now.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
WNTT, a pretty good hypothesis. Just that awkward little fact; they have yet to confirm the presence of a bomb.
Confirm in either sense - that they have found evidence but not revealed it or that they have yet to find evidence.
Confirm in either sense - that they have found evidence but not revealed it or that they have yet to find evidence.
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There are now several pics of the damaged tail section which **seem** to show the coupling between the jackscrew and HS- sort of an 'H' shaped part normally attached by large pins on left and right sides. *post 1317 and 1004 for examples *
What bothers me is that that part visible in the wreckage does not seem to be broken, ie: the 'ears" on the ends of the 'H' section seem to be undamaged. Which in turn means that the pins were pulled out in the reverse direction of normal installation.
Those pins are massive compared to other parts, and the "H" section is probably a machined part. Given the expected tumbling and impact damage of the tail section evident- it is IMO dfifficult to understand how at least two pins on the legs of the "H" either fell out or were removed without any obvious sign of damage. ( ears not damaged, pins or portions of pins not evident )
Could it be that the pins/jackscrew parts were removed by ground personnel before any of the released photos were taken ?
OTOH that 'H" shaped part is *probably* not part of or related to the jackscrew at all - it does appear to be relatively thin. ??
What bothers me is that that part visible in the wreckage does not seem to be broken, ie: the 'ears" on the ends of the 'H' section seem to be undamaged. Which in turn means that the pins were pulled out in the reverse direction of normal installation.
Those pins are massive compared to other parts, and the "H" section is probably a machined part. Given the expected tumbling and impact damage of the tail section evident- it is IMO dfifficult to understand how at least two pins on the legs of the "H" either fell out or were removed without any obvious sign of damage. ( ears not damaged, pins or portions of pins not evident )
Could it be that the pins/jackscrew parts were removed by ground personnel before any of the released photos were taken ?
OTOH that 'H" shaped part is *probably* not part of or related to the jackscrew at all - it does appear to be relatively thin. ??
I asked if it was part of jackscrew assembly and told NO. see post 1315 from Sardak replying to me , pretty sure the guy works at A321 plant in usa
also look at these from Kulverstukas, I can't see a bit like the H, I asked because of course none of the images concerned are from same angle lighting etc.
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Just that awkward little fact; they have yet to confirm the presence of a bomb.
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andrasz
About 50 bodies was claimed by relatives because they has been identified through "common" or "simple" procedure as they state it in press. This mean that them was nor heavily burned nor fragmented, right?
Have access to pax list and names of victims (from reports of funerals) we can make conclusion which part of plane was not burned/shredded.
I can be wrong but seems it's rows 29-backward
For example everyone takes it for granted that the bodies in the back were 'burnt', just because an unverified source says so.
Have access to pax list and names of victims (from reports of funerals) we can make conclusion which part of plane was not burned/shredded.
I can be wrong but seems it's rows 29-backward
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Andrasz. Quite agree except about security. The News feed clearly showed an inadequate body search and a less than alert scanner operator.
I accept that lots of extra layers are in place but if, of two, one is lax or relaxed then there are not two layers.
I accept that lots of extra layers are in place but if, of two, one is lax or relaxed then there are not two layers.
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Maybe interesting
A new video footage showing the examination of the debris.
I got them from the video. https://youtu.be/yQCVLAlkYVE
I got them from the video. https://youtu.be/yQCVLAlkYVE
Last edited by Ewout; 6th Nov 2015 at 17:24.
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As EZY9022 and TCX270 are on approach to LCA, it's amazing that LCA can handle all the unscheduled arrivals, but SSH apparently can't. Funny that. Where will TOM898 end up..? Let me think... Egyptians not being difficult, of course not, how could anyone conclude that?!
We hear suggestions that CVR is badly damaged and possibly unrecoverable and that the FDR stopped recording just before whatever happened, happened. Wouldn't that be convenient...(for whom?)
6 days of Russia saying there's no evidence of a bomb, criticising the UK very strongly yesterday for suspending flights, not engaging with them, now Russia halts all flight to Egypt. Funny that.
SSH security widely considered to be a shambles, but now the toughest in the world...overnight. Of course it is.
Agenda anyone?
Will we ever get a definitive answer as to what happened? Now I doubt it very much.
We hear suggestions that CVR is badly damaged and possibly unrecoverable and that the FDR stopped recording just before whatever happened, happened. Wouldn't that be convenient...(for whom?)
6 days of Russia saying there's no evidence of a bomb, criticising the UK very strongly yesterday for suspending flights, not engaging with them, now Russia halts all flight to Egypt. Funny that.
SSH security widely considered to be a shambles, but now the toughest in the world...overnight. Of course it is.
Agenda anyone?
Will we ever get a definitive answer as to what happened? Now I doubt it very much.
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H shaped piece
"I asked if it was part of jackscrew assembly and told NO. see post 1315 from Sardak replying to me , pretty sure the guy works at A321 plant in usa
also look at these from Kulverstukas, I can't see a bit like the H, I asked because of course none of the images concerned are from same angle lighting etc."
Look at the structure on either side of the pivot points. They are airfoil ribs like you would see in a small plane's wing or tail. This shape exists on the APU air intake door, but is not part of anything on the jackscrew.
Look further down and closer to the camera, and duct box or air plenum is visible.
also look at these from Kulverstukas, I can't see a bit like the H, I asked because of course none of the images concerned are from same angle lighting etc."
Look at the structure on either side of the pivot points. They are airfoil ribs like you would see in a small plane's wing or tail. This shape exists on the APU air intake door, but is not part of anything on the jackscrew.
Look further down and closer to the camera, and duct box or air plenum is visible.
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Breaking News
06/11/2015 18:11 BREAKING French media claims black box data confirms Metrojet A321 was bombed over Sinai
The black boxes of the aircraft made it possible to clearly hear the sound of an explosion during the flight, said Friday, November 6th an investigator to France2.
He said the explosion would not be secondary to engine failure, which would remove the assumption of the accident.
06/11/2015 15:40 Russia should suspend flights to Egypt while Sinai crash investigated - FSB chief
06/11/2015 14:49 Egypt's Minister of Civil Aviation says #Sharmelsheikh airport will operate 8 flights to the UK instead of the 29 flights scheduled today
06/11/2015 14:42 Emergency crews search A321 flight 7K9268 debris
Source in French: INFO FRANCE 2. Crash dans le Sinaï : l'explosion n'était pas d'origine accidentelle, indiquent les boîtes noires
P.S. please delete if it's been mentioned before.
The black boxes of the aircraft made it possible to clearly hear the sound of an explosion during the flight, said Friday, November 6th an investigator to France2.
He said the explosion would not be secondary to engine failure, which would remove the assumption of the accident.
06/11/2015 15:40 Russia should suspend flights to Egypt while Sinai crash investigated - FSB chief
06/11/2015 14:49 Egypt's Minister of Civil Aviation says #Sharmelsheikh airport will operate 8 flights to the UK instead of the 29 flights scheduled today
06/11/2015 14:42 Emergency crews search A321 flight 7K9268 debris
Source in French: INFO FRANCE 2. Crash dans le Sinaï : l'explosion n'était pas d'origine accidentelle, indiquent les boîtes noires
P.S. please delete if it's been mentioned before.
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It would be interesting if everyone who is convinced about a bomb could share their thoughts on the following:
1. The damaged vertical stabilizer.
2. The detached horizontal stabilizers.
3. The 25 seconds of FR24 data transmitted after the event.
4. The damages to the tail section with separated APU compartment.
I have a hard time to see how the tail section can be so damaged if a bomb detached it. Earlier bombings such as the destruction of a JAT DC-9 clearly shows that a tail section remains more or less intact if it separates due to an explosion in the cabin or cargo hold.
The damages to the tail is a strong indicator that something happened there and until images prove otherwise, the rear pressure bulkhead and/or stabilizer assembly continues to create questions.
A detached tail section (if we assume the fuselage broke apart behind the wings and in front of the rear cabin doors) would fall more or less in one piece with the stabilizers still attached.
It is also worth to mention the simple fact that different groups has been claiming responsibility for bombs even if the cause is something else. If there is an official statement from the investigation team about damages caused by a bomb blast, then there is little doubt but I have a strong suspicion that bomb speculations are a diversion from the true cause of the accident.
Edit: It is normal that a "bang" is heard on the CVR and I wouldn't pay too much attention to "breaking news" unless there is press conference with the investigative team where it is stated without a doubt that "analysis of the sound on the CVR confirm that it was an explosion rather than structural failure".
1. The damaged vertical stabilizer.
2. The detached horizontal stabilizers.
3. The 25 seconds of FR24 data transmitted after the event.
4. The damages to the tail section with separated APU compartment.
I have a hard time to see how the tail section can be so damaged if a bomb detached it. Earlier bombings such as the destruction of a JAT DC-9 clearly shows that a tail section remains more or less intact if it separates due to an explosion in the cabin or cargo hold.
The damages to the tail is a strong indicator that something happened there and until images prove otherwise, the rear pressure bulkhead and/or stabilizer assembly continues to create questions.
A detached tail section (if we assume the fuselage broke apart behind the wings and in front of the rear cabin doors) would fall more or less in one piece with the stabilizers still attached.
It is also worth to mention the simple fact that different groups has been claiming responsibility for bombs even if the cause is something else. If there is an official statement from the investigation team about damages caused by a bomb blast, then there is little doubt but I have a strong suspicion that bomb speculations are a diversion from the true cause of the accident.
Edit: It is normal that a "bang" is heard on the CVR and I wouldn't pay too much attention to "breaking news" unless there is press conference with the investigative team where it is stated without a doubt that "analysis of the sound on the CVR confirm that it was an explosion rather than structural failure".
Last edited by AVR4000; 6th Nov 2015 at 16:19.
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"06/11/2015 18:11 BREAKING French media claims black box data confirms Metrojet A321 was bombed over Sinai
The black boxes of the aircraft made it possible to clearly hear the sound of an explosion during the flight, said Friday, November 6th an investigator to France2."
This comes after the official statement that stated there was no data on either recorder.
But it might explain Russia's flight cancellations into the area.
The black boxes of the aircraft made it possible to clearly hear the sound of an explosion during the flight, said Friday, November 6th an investigator to France2."
This comes after the official statement that stated there was no data on either recorder.
But it might explain Russia's flight cancellations into the area.