BREAKING NEWS: airliner missing within Egyptian FIR
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Customer return flights planned; close consultation with authorities
The airlines of the Lufthansa Group have suspended their commercial flight operations to and from the Sinai Peninsula until further notice. The precautionary action has been taken in view of the current Sinai situation. The Lufthansa Group will coordinate all its further actions in this regard in close consultation with the authorities. The action affects two planned weekly flights to and from Sharm el-Sheikh, operated by Edelweiss and Eurowings.
The Lufthansa Group airlines will also be working closely with their governments’ foreign affairs departments and the tour operators involved to look after customers currently vacationing in the Sharm el-Sheikh region and arrange their return flights home.
The airlines of the Lufthansa Group have suspended their commercial flight operations to and from the Sinai Peninsula until further notice. The precautionary action has been taken in view of the current Sinai situation. The Lufthansa Group will coordinate all its further actions in this regard in close consultation with the authorities. The action affects two planned weekly flights to and from Sharm el-Sheikh, operated by Edelweiss and Eurowings.
The Lufthansa Group airlines will also be working closely with their governments’ foreign affairs departments and the tour operators involved to look after customers currently vacationing in the Sharm el-Sheikh region and arrange their return flights home.
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The real concern will be to isolate Sharm Airport personnel from the aircraft.
With outbound flights empty and UK catered the only interaction will be with the fuellers which can be supervised.
With outbound flights empty and UK catered the only interaction will be with the fuellers which can be supervised.
Holes, Inner or outtie
I note a lot of posts about holes in structures and speculative conclusions about bombs etc.
Almost every prang that destroys an aircraft has such. The challenge to the investigator is to assess what velocity was involved and by what type of particle origin.
The vast majority originate from aircraft or engine structures that are forced or pushed outward at no more than the impact vector velocity. The tearing fractures along the hole are classic (tensile shear) in this sense.
Explosive impacts (missiles, bombs and/or uncontained engine parts) impact at much higher velocities (over a range). Thus these holes often have the presence of cratering (adiabatic shear etc.) and/or multiple dissimilar impacts over an area near the hole.
The investigators on scene know this and can be expected to comment if seen.
(note: I haven't seen any comments from them at this time)
Almost every prang that destroys an aircraft has such. The challenge to the investigator is to assess what velocity was involved and by what type of particle origin.
The vast majority originate from aircraft or engine structures that are forced or pushed outward at no more than the impact vector velocity. The tearing fractures along the hole are classic (tensile shear) in this sense.
Explosive impacts (missiles, bombs and/or uncontained engine parts) impact at much higher velocities (over a range). Thus these holes often have the presence of cratering (adiabatic shear etc.) and/or multiple dissimilar impacts over an area near the hole.
The investigators on scene know this and can be expected to comment if seen.
(note: I haven't seen any comments from them at this time)
HM UK Govt and easy jet do not trust the SSH airport personnel one iota if it means a sterile aircraft
so that means its not ness the assumed lax pax security checks (although BA have a double layer with an extra one at the gate before boarding) its the whole air side thing
so from tomorrow 10 easyjet flights back to UK (6 of them rescues)
no hold bags/pushchairs/wheelchairs - all have to be left behind and will be sent on next week
only allowed one small cabin bag
blimey what an operation and stress at the airport for 1000's of pax and staff
so that means its not ness the assumed lax pax security checks (although BA have a double layer with an extra one at the gate before boarding) its the whole air side thing
so from tomorrow 10 easyjet flights back to UK (6 of them rescues)
no hold bags/pushchairs/wheelchairs - all have to be left behind and will be sent on next week
only allowed one small cabin bag
blimey what an operation and stress at the airport for 1000's of pax and staff
@Kulver
That is the rear tip of the tailcone with the APU exhaust hole and the rear anti-collision light. This photo already surfaced on several news sites 3 days ago.
That is the rear tip of the tailcone with the APU exhaust hole and the rear anti-collision light. This photo already surfaced on several news sites 3 days ago.
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Body found 20 miles away
A Daily Wail link I'm afraid so accuracy not guaranteed........
Could toddler killed in Egypt air disaster hold the clue to why the plane crashed? Tiny girl?s body is discovered 20 miles from crash site, suggesting Russian jet may have exploded earlier than thought | Daily Mail Online
Search area now increased to 25 miles
Could toddler killed in Egypt air disaster hold the clue to why the plane crashed? Tiny girl?s body is discovered 20 miles from crash site, suggesting Russian jet may have exploded earlier than thought | Daily Mail Online
Search area now increased to 25 miles
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Upper HS support is present at crash scene.
The HS is attached to the airframe at only 3 points, the 2 aft pivot pins and the jackscrew at the noes.
The pivot pins are held by 2 support assemblies at either side of the fishmouth at the aft most station of the fuselage. These supports are removd to install the HS, then replaced to attach the pivot pins.
The upper aft most station frame assembly is clearly visible in the photo, the jackscrew is there as well, but not recognizable in such a low res pic. A high res pic was posted last night, but is gone now. I went to the source and got a 404 error, so gone for good, I guess.
In second pic, the red lines are the removable support rods that engage the HS pivots, the yellow lines point to their upper mount areas, visible in the other photo.
The HS is attached to the airframe at only 3 points, the 2 aft pivot pins and the jackscrew at the noes.
The pivot pins are held by 2 support assemblies at either side of the fishmouth at the aft most station of the fuselage. These supports are removd to install the HS, then replaced to attach the pivot pins.
The upper aft most station frame assembly is clearly visible in the photo, the jackscrew is there as well, but not recognizable in such a low res pic. A high res pic was posted last night, but is gone now. I went to the source and got a 404 error, so gone for good, I guess.
In second pic, the red lines are the removable support rods that engage the HS pivots, the yellow lines point to their upper mount areas, visible in the other photo.
now look at this enlargement of the image you showed
I can see what you believe to be the screwjack but it is not even central with the panel, there is no hole, I don't know what it is but pretty sure it is not the screw jack, additionally I think the panel is the outer skin where the TP fixes and has been torn upwards when it departed (see below)
Now for another view of the rear assemblies
if you look at this the green circle shows what I think is the top screwjack panel (the hole is there) and there is no sign of a screwjack.
Last edited by oldoberon; 5th Nov 2015 at 17:44. Reason: typos
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have a look at Roman Kosarev's twitter (https://twitter.com/Kosarev_RT/statu...89781569806337),
there is a very head on shot of the tail debris from the front.
ARB/galley seems to be pretty intact?
there is a very head on shot of the tail debris from the front.
ARB/galley seems to be pretty intact?
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A Daily Wail link I'm afraid so accuracy not guaranteed........
Could toddler killed in Egypt air disaster hold the clue to why the plane crashed? Tiny girl?s body is discovered 20 miles from crash site, suggesting Russian jet may have exploded earlier than thought | Daily Mail Online
Search area now increased to 25 miles
Could toddler killed in Egypt air disaster hold the clue to why the plane crashed? Tiny girl?s body is discovered 20 miles from crash site, suggesting Russian jet may have exploded earlier than thought | Daily Mail Online
Search area now increased to 25 miles
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Ian W Flash from engine(s) break upward into wing(s) on minus 10g or more bunt causing fuel tank explosion and igniting remains of wing and fuselage; second flash on explosion of remaining fuel on ground impact.
Look up "confirmation bias".
Stick with the cheese
Look up "confirmation bias".
Stick with the cheese
toddler found 25 miles away
WNTT
tragic indeed - her mum may have taken her to the loo at the back?
tragic indeed - her mum may have taken her to the loo at the back?
The child may have been held on lap mother's, given that she's an infant. (Recall we did that when my son was very young).
I wait with interest to understand how:
- With some informed discussion within the industry, and above, of the detailed wreckage photographs, where nobody has spotted the generally apparent (to knowledgeable observers, not all here but certainly a few) signs of an explosive, but there is much detailed discussion of an airframe failure
- With statements by both Egypt and Russia, the two most closely involved with the recovery, that they even today don't particularly but the explosive line
When it comes to the two "flashes" seen from a satellite, I seem to recall that when the Tu144 had an aerodynamic structural breakup at the Paris show (with minimal airshow fuel on board) there was a notable midair explosion and fire within seconds of the breakup, and another on contact with the ground.
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Now what will happen to an airframe without HS? Clue it was strong enough to break the fuselage into 4 main pieces, Cockpit, forward fuselage over wings, rear fuselage to read doors, remains of empenage minus HS and rudder.
It is the HS breaking away that needs to be explained in this incident.
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The investigators may need to ask: was her seatbelt fastened?
The article indicates her parents bodies haven't found yet (not identified in main wreckage?).
Assuming that her and her parents were in there seats (row 9), could there been an event that she (only) was sucked out to account for the distance from the main crash site. The plane made no course change nor declared an emergency, so unlikely.
The fact remains though how did she end up so far away from the main crash site
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Why do we keep coming back to possible hydraulic leak on rudder?
Realistically, no hyd leak will go on for years, unchecked. Come on already.
It is De-icing fluid residue......
Realistically, no hyd leak will go on for years, unchecked. Come on already.
It is De-icing fluid residue......
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Sinai plane crash: Russia and Egypt urge caution on bomb theory - BBC News
the only people talking about a bomb attack are the British and they are nowhere near the investigation.
the only people talking about a bomb attack are the British and they are nowhere near the investigation.
the US?