BREAKING NEWS: airliner missing within Egyptian FIR
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My question is:
Given a bomb perhaps in the rear cargo hold, it would release a blast with extreme heat around.. Now, since the main wreckage (wings, fuselage, hence forward cargo hold) has caught fire, why there is a number of baggages -supposedly coming from the rear cargo hold- intacted and not burnt?
Given a bomb perhaps in the rear cargo hold, it would release a blast with extreme heat around.. Now, since the main wreckage (wings, fuselage, hence forward cargo hold) has caught fire, why there is a number of baggages -supposedly coming from the rear cargo hold- intacted and not burnt?
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Daily Mail Expat
Heyy Mr. Expart! Where are the seats.Did this bus kinda evaporate mostly before hitting that turf?
As I'm now an "aviation expert" according to the Daily Hate I better respond to this. The skin on the other side is indeed folded inwards however look closer; the ends of the torn skin are folded outwards. The inner section has a heavy window. When the tail section hit the ground the heavy window bent the skin back in. The torn end, bending outwards, still remains in its original bent position.
Ask me anything. I'm now an official expert. In everything.
Ask me anything. I'm now an official expert. In everything.
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If you go through the videos of the crash area, you can see sections of floor with 2 or 3 rows of seats still attached. They are isolated so suggests they came from aft of the wing.
I really hate to speculate ahead of the proper investigation, but something looks a little strange so I'm going to risk being (probably rightly) jeered at and mention it.
The photos of the crash site seem to show and extremely low-energy impact. There are no signs of a horizontal velocity at all - the wings seemed to have burned out (as you'd expect), but they appear to have been essentially intact when they arrived at their current location. The forward fuselage wreckage is lying in alignment with, and barely disconnected from, the wings. There is no classical "arrowhead" shape to the debris field, and there are no scrape-marks in the ground where the aeroplane came to a stop, which seems to suggest it dropped vertically and hit perfectly flat.
If the forward section of the fuselage had detached (sending the CG aft) this could be feasible (as for the impact site of development Typhoon DA6 in Spain), but this would need a wing and tail to still be both together and well-attached. If the theory is that this aeroplane broke-up at altitude, losing most of its tail in the process, then the CG would have gone forwards and there would have been no opposing/stabilising effect from the tailplane. So I would have expected it to either settle into a vertical dive or (if the CG fortuitously ended up in a certain very narrow range) a steady diving glide [probably inverted, due to the effect of the wing camber]. The wreckage configuration isn't really consistent with either of these scenarios - am I missing something?
PDR
The photos of the crash site seem to show and extremely low-energy impact. There are no signs of a horizontal velocity at all - the wings seemed to have burned out (as you'd expect), but they appear to have been essentially intact when they arrived at their current location. The forward fuselage wreckage is lying in alignment with, and barely disconnected from, the wings. There is no classical "arrowhead" shape to the debris field, and there are no scrape-marks in the ground where the aeroplane came to a stop, which seems to suggest it dropped vertically and hit perfectly flat.
If the forward section of the fuselage had detached (sending the CG aft) this could be feasible (as for the impact site of development Typhoon DA6 in Spain), but this would need a wing and tail to still be both together and well-attached. If the theory is that this aeroplane broke-up at altitude, losing most of its tail in the process, then the CG would have gone forwards and there would have been no opposing/stabilising effect from the tailplane. So I would have expected it to either settle into a vertical dive or (if the CG fortuitously ended up in a certain very narrow range) a steady diving glide [probably inverted, due to the effect of the wing camber]. The wreckage configuration isn't really consistent with either of these scenarios - am I missing something?
PDR
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inadequate repairs post-tail-strike ...
The tail strike occurred when the plane was being leased from ILFC (by MEA). Hardly Metrojet's fault.
In any case ILFC should know how to get a decent repair job done to protect the value of their asset.
In any case ILFC should know how to get a decent repair job done to protect the value of their asset.
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Debris Map
Last edited by Mudman; 2nd Nov 2015 at 13:42.
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the Lockerbie debris field was very large. i used to go fishing the rivers around there and 9 months after the crash there were several woods that were taped off and we were told strickly no way should we enter as they had not been searched. that area was newcastleton which must be 30-40 km away from lockerbie
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Tailstrikes
On the tailstrike issue: Presumably some of these impacts involve a lot of energy. Even if a good repair is done and no corrosive liquids are leaking etc.,, does that preclude less obvious damage, i.e. microscopic stress fractures at a distance from the tail, caused by the original impact?
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Someone posted a pic of A321 dated May 2015 in SSH showing possible crack/damage on lower part of rudder ...
http://ura.ru/images/news/upload/new...2cf6402f9f.jpg
http://ura.ru/images/news/upload/new...2cf6402f9f.jpg
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"Someone posted a pic of A321 dated May 2015 in SSH showing possible crack/damage on lower part of rudder ... "
Static discharge across the hinge due to broken/missing bonding strap?
Static discharge across the hinge due to broken/missing bonding strap?
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Suppose the bomb is somewhere near the aft cargo door and ruptures the fuselage, enough to break tail lose, most of luggage will clear the hold instantly and be spared of fire which should mostly be around fuel tanks in the wings and center of a/c.
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G-CPTN, it would have definitely been checked.
Guys, what does at least one of the pilots do at the very beginning of every sector? A walk-around! We do not just walk around and see if the LH engine is there and the HS is still nailed on. We check the aircraft over thoroughly and in a low lit environment, we use a torch.
If the pilot walking around would have spotted a defect with the aircraft, then they would have not decided to fly. If, and this is a big if, the crew discussed the defect and decided to fly on to LED, then the conversation would have been picked up by the CVR.
Nevertheless, the debris will be analysed for any foreign fragments (i.e. parts of a bomb) and the debris will also be tested for any microscopic scarring caused by a bomb blast. The investigators will also be verifying who worked at the airport that day and who was able to gain access to the aircraft, including ground staff, pax, crew, an aviation inspector perhaps?
Guys, what does at least one of the pilots do at the very beginning of every sector? A walk-around! We do not just walk around and see if the LH engine is there and the HS is still nailed on. We check the aircraft over thoroughly and in a low lit environment, we use a torch.
If the pilot walking around would have spotted a defect with the aircraft, then they would have not decided to fly. If, and this is a big if, the crew discussed the defect and decided to fly on to LED, then the conversation would have been picked up by the CVR.
Nevertheless, the debris will be analysed for any foreign fragments (i.e. parts of a bomb) and the debris will also be tested for any microscopic scarring caused by a bomb blast. The investigators will also be verifying who worked at the airport that day and who was able to gain access to the aircraft, including ground staff, pax, crew, an aviation inspector perhaps?
Last edited by THR RED ACC; 2nd Nov 2015 at 14:14.
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oleostrut
Would be an option, but hydraulic fluid leak traces are evidence of bigger problem perhaps...
Static discharge across the hinge due to broken/missing bonding strap?
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If, and this is a big if, the crew discussed the defect and decided to fly on to LED, then the conversation would have been picked up by the CVR.
If put to ON, it allows CVR to work with engines OFF, otherwise CVR works with first engine ON only..
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Available images
When you take the available pictures and make a 2D mosaic reconstruction, and only use the sections, components and parts whose identity you sure of, you get a surprisingly completely picture. But some major items are missing.
The main items missing appear to be:
a.The seats ( i have not seen a single one, and only one forgotten passenger-seat-cushion ). Which shows respect for the passengers. On some photos you can see part of the cabin seat-rails.
b.The other are the long fuselage section(s) from behind the wing to the window before the last passenger door.
c.The horizontal stabilizer and the rudder.
d.The APU.
Without these items i would not even start an 'early analysis'(speculating).
So i wonder if anyone has found pictures that can fill in these blanks.
The main items missing appear to be:
a.The seats ( i have not seen a single one, and only one forgotten passenger-seat-cushion ). Which shows respect for the passengers. On some photos you can see part of the cabin seat-rails.
b.The other are the long fuselage section(s) from behind the wing to the window before the last passenger door.
c.The horizontal stabilizer and the rudder.
d.The APU.
Without these items i would not even start an 'early analysis'(speculating).
So i wonder if anyone has found pictures that can fill in these blanks.
ricfly744
If it was not reported, how does anyone know about it?
Not reported to whom?
Not reported by whom?
Kulverstukas
(Interesting in light of the report that this company is in serious arrears on payroll ... how's QA or QC doing under that environment?)
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tatelyle
How is the Sinai a conflict zone?
Most interesting points (as one awaits some info on what was on the FDR) have been raised in re industry wide tail strikes from thecrozier and a few others. It may be some time before that factor is agreed as having been germane, or not, in this case.
The A321, is a longer A/C and its fuselage may be more sensible to structural damage after a very hard landing. A previous hard landing was not reported and no one made a proper inspection.
Not reported to whom?
Not reported by whom?
Kulverstukas
Kolavia reps told on briefing they hold now that plane was checked in tail area for repair of structural damage condition in 2014 as part of D-Check.
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tatelyle
After the Malaysia shoot-down, one wonders why anyone would consider flying over an active conflict zone at any level. Can you really be certain of the weaponry they have in that region? Why not fly up the Gulf to the Delta and the Med, and then plot a course home? Are costs that tight, that you have to take the direct and more risky route?
Most interesting points (as one awaits some info on what was on the FDR) have been raised in re industry wide tail strikes from thecrozier and a few others. It may be some time before that factor is agreed as having been germane, or not, in this case.
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D check
AFAIK, recent C check on the EI-ETJ was performed in 2013. The picture showing the potential airframe (rudder) damage was taken in 2015.
Last edited by MartinAOA; 2nd Nov 2015 at 22:55. Reason: New information/Clarity
