BREAKING NEWS: airliner missing within Egyptian FIR

[Backoffice]

A link to the first version of that video was posted on about page 7 of this thread on 01Nov and I saw it around 16.45.
2 posts down someone said fake, there was little or no conversation about it and the mods deleted the linked post.
I found a longer version on Youtube aired by CNN a couple of days later.
The fact it didn't appear elsewhere in the the UK media suggests some suppression methinks.

[Kulverstukas]

Solidarity is important at events like this press conference. It was conspicuous by its absence.

In the current state of foreign affairs it's not, alas.

[Kulverstukas]

Wow, this press event was not worthless. Not every part of plane was found. FDR stops at 4:13:20.

[anartificialhorizon]

Wow, this press event was not worthless. Not every part of plane was found. FDR stops

Kulverstukas.

What do you expect!? The wreckage, we are led to believe, is spread over 13kms..... And that is what they know. Of course they haven't found every piece of wreckage yet

[mickjoebill]

Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator

And how many observers here have seen a real explosion.

Having filmed 3 airframes being blown up as well as gas, petroleum, dust explosions, flashovers and numerous controlled demolitions for science docs I have a good idea of how explosions are imaged by video cameras.


The disperancy in the black level of smoke versus the airframe is my main issue.

Yes if the video is real the smoke could have been processed separately to alter its black level for dramatic effect. But a higher priority would be to stabilise the footage.

However a common trick to help marry composite elements is to leave or make the frame wobbly.

The technical quality and editorial punch is relatively poor compared to their other propaganda, where they leave no doubt as to the authenticity of events incurring in front of the camera.

So it is out of character that they have not released any images of the aircraft falling.


Mickjoebill

[Kulverstukas]

anartificialhorizon,

What do you expect!? The wreckage, we are led to believe, is spread over 13kms..... And that is what they know. Of course they haven't found every piece of wreckage yet

It is not necessary to eat the whole cake to know the taste. I read this as "we don't found any evidence yet"

[Kulverstukas]

Mickjoebill I second you in this:

However a common trick to help marry composite elements is to leave or make the frame wobbly.

Also watching a lot of flying at large distance planes footage I feel this wobbling looks more artificial than real one, as operator pretend that camera is shaky. Coupled with vertical framing, to make it looks more like phone video.

[Pontius Navigator]

Originally Posted by Backoffice

A link to the first version of that video was posted on about page 7 of this thread on 01Nov and I saw it around 16.45.
2 posts down someone said fake, there was little or no conversation about it and the mods deleted the linked post.
I found a longer version on Youtube aired by CNN a couple of days later.
The fact it didn't appear elsewhere in the the UK media suggests some suppression methinks.

The Daily Express carries the link.

[rog747]

re videos posted by isis

the metrojet was almost at FL310 (filed for FL360 ) on heading 351' out of SSH at 400kts

at the same time there was another Russian A321 Nordwind flight NSW1969 in the vicinity on reciprocal course 150' level at FL330 heading for SSH just 10 km ahead and to the right side of the metrojet 321 at a speed of 509kt

if the ISIS videos were true with that explosion and black smoke trail would/should the Nordwind crew and/or pax possibly have seen something?

see here
https://twitter.com/FMCnl/status/660378915496730625

that's all been very quiet on that

[HarryMann]

Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat

There is of course a precedent for relatives of victims taking revenge after an airliner has crashed:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitaly_Kaloyev

Mmmm... two different laws and two different cultures in that story.
Make him a hero why don't you... what if everyone bereaved went around killing the supposed culprit ?
In fact there were others much more culpable than that air traffic controller left on duty by himself...

[Marodeur]

@ anartificialhorizon : Post No 1645

I concur with your sentiments. As was the case with MH17, shot down and scattered across the eastern Ukraine, this new tragedy in the Sinai shows the zero understanding of the incumbent authorities and in-situ personnel (population) in dealing with events of this scale.
I applaud the quick actions taken by, inter alia, the British and Irish governments of suspending all flights to SES. A very short 24 hrs later the Russians eventually woke up and followed suit. Countries like Egypt, there are others too, will and are learning that in times of tragic events you either have the capability and capacity to deal with things or you don't. And if you don't then have the moral courage to let those who can get on with the job.

For lack of a better example - you need to crawl before you can walk and you need to walk before you can run.

[rog747]

i have to say this sorry accident has been discussed on Pprune in a far more calm and sensible manner by most 99.9% on here than previous bun fights which have occurred on other accident discussions and sharing -

i have read every page & thread from the start in this fascinating and developing story

hope we can all keep to this decorum and cordial

at the end of the day 224 holidaymakers perished with implications for the future of travel to Egypt in the balance

ps any comment re my post 1656?

[Walnut]

I am perplexed as to why the crew of NSW1969 at FL330 10miles apart did not see the Russian Jets explosion which was only 2000ft below, it would have been right in their eyeline, in fact it was probably the traffic stopping their descent and if they were not on radar they would have been eyeballing it.

[rog747]

re nordwind

walnut

it was 10km not 10 miles afaik

metrojet is at 400kts
nordwind is at 500kts would they have already passed at the explosion?

[dsc810]

Maybe its is just that the crew of the other aircraft in the vicinity feel no need to "share" their observations (if any) of the events with the general media or PPRUNE.

When that bizjet crashed at Blackbushe in the UK a few months ago the AAIB's initial statement of known facts a few weeks later mentioned a change in the circuit pattern by the jet to accommodate a slow flying microlight.
This was the first anyone had heard of the presence of a microlight and those flying it have never made any public statements - though I'm sure they have made one to the AAIB.

[Chronus]

Originally Posted by rog747

i have to say this sorry accident has been discussed on Pprune in a far more calm and sensible manner by most 99.9% on here than previous bun fights which have occurred on other accident discussions and sharing -

i have read every page & thread from the start in this fascinating and developing story

hope we can all keep to this decorum and cordial

at the end of the day 224 holidaymakers perished with implications for the future of travel to Egypt in the balance

ps any comment re my post 1656?

RE # 1656

Sighting unlikely. More important ATC comms after SSR contact lost and possible primary radar trace of break up. At this stage we don`t have any information on ATC tapes and whether other traffic was requested to report sighting or to relay. Depends who was on whose frequency.

[mitrosft]

Re post 1565 by rog747

There is no time stamp in twitter pic. Assume Nordwind passed KG before event.

Even if they were in sight during the event, initial blast may not have produced flash big enough for NW to notice, as fuel probably ignited few seconds later.

[oldoberon]

Originally Posted by rog747

i have to say this sorry accident has been discussed on Pprune in a far more calm and sensible manner by most 99.9% on here than previous bun fights which have occurred on other accident discussions and sharing -

i have read every page & thread from the start in this fascinating and developing story

hope we can all keep to this decorum and cordial

at the end of the day 224 holidaymakers perished with implications for the future of travel to Egypt in the balance

ps any comment re my post 1656?

I have not seen any statement related to what the NW aircrft did or did not see.

In the press today on the article about the thmson aircraft missing a missile by 1000ft, it said another thomson aircraft on approach to sharm saw it and reported it.

I would have thought at 10mls virtually straight ahead in clear skies they must have seen the aftermath especially once fire broke out. In fact they are probably the only eyewitnesses (unless the fake vid isn't fake).

Assuming as stated they had not already passed each other

[theron]

Kulverstukas:

Wow, this press event was not worthless. Not every part of plane was found. FDR stops at 4:13:20.

And FR24 data shows flight disruption starts at around 4:13:00. If these times are accurate, hopefully something useful will show up in those last few seconds.

[rog747]

mitrosft re my post 1656

my point was that if the isis videos were real and Nordwind had the KG insight then the extreme black smoke seen in those videos would/should have been visible to the NWS unless they had already passed

i haven't done the maths of when they should passed each other as i cannot find the times for NWS A321

thanks chaps for other replies