BREAKING NEWS: airliner missing within Egyptian FIR
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
ExPatChris, it is a classic case of stable doors.
If there is one airport where you can be sure that security if top notch it will be SSH for at least the next week.
If there is one airport where you can be sure that security if top notch it will be SSH for at least the next week.
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PN, I doesn't tell that there wasn't hull loses at FL.
What I mean is
1) there is almost any part of plane immediately located
2) Bot CVR/FDR found in near perfect cond.
3) Plane was in inhabited area with constant control from ground
4) and it SUDDENLY fall apart without notice...
StuntPilot
I'm not pilot/tech but on what was said on Russian forum, there is no such thin on Airbus as C/D check and this list is shows works done which is analog to Boeing D-check.
What I mean is
1) there is almost any part of plane immediately located
2) Bot CVR/FDR found in near perfect cond.
3) Plane was in inhabited area with constant control from ground
4) and it SUDDENLY fall apart without notice...
StuntPilot
Also, the Metro Jet docs show that last year (in march) a C check was performed, not a D check.
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A bomb on one plane at SSH could be on any plane - could have been a random act (ie to whichever plane the bomber could get access to)
'Bombproof' security of pax luggage wouldn't prevent this.
Stable door, horse, bolted.
As has been said - the terrorists only have to get lucky once . . .
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Fly in and out of CAI fairly regularly and worth noting the security there actually has two levels. You can't get through to the check in desks without first passing through an initial baggage x ray and body check. You also are not allowed to proceed without a valid boarding pass or booking checked against the manifest (fun for standby staff travel).
Security is then conducted at the entrance to the gate waiting room, this has always seemed as effective as other airports to me.
Obviously this is Cairo not Sharm but I've also flown domestic from Sharm and I wouldn't have called it a dangerous airport (taxi speeds aside).
However my other experience of living/being in Egypt a lot is money always talks...
Security is then conducted at the entrance to the gate waiting room, this has always seemed as effective as other airports to me.
Obviously this is Cairo not Sharm but I've also flown domestic from Sharm and I wouldn't have called it a dangerous airport (taxi speeds aside).
However my other experience of living/being in Egypt a lot is money always talks...
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The pictures of the tailcone show a long section of pipework known to be (from schematics and factory photos previously posted) the APU fuel supply pipe.
_If_ the cone detached either as the initiating event or as a result of VS/HS fail, would not the yanking out of this pipe cause a fuel leak capable of causing an explosion? The length of the pipe shown probably isn't sufficient to reach the centre tank, but by my non-expert reckoning it would be forward of the RPB.
I'd have thought if the APU isn't running their would be an isolator on the fuel line hopefully at the tank, but what if that failed or was left open (yes I know, Mr Occam is getting less happy as I go on, but still...).
Lastly, is it at all possible that the APU was actually running during the flight? I imagine there would be plenty of cockpit indication of that but it would enable the fuel leak - or possibly even APU malfunction of some kind. From photos I'm not suggesting destructive failure of APU, but possibly vibration, along with corroded cone attachment due to skydrol leak assisting cone departure or somesuch ...
Happy for all above to be discounted, but for some reason that long intact pipe section in the APU cone photos intrigues me.
_If_ the cone detached either as the initiating event or as a result of VS/HS fail, would not the yanking out of this pipe cause a fuel leak capable of causing an explosion? The length of the pipe shown probably isn't sufficient to reach the centre tank, but by my non-expert reckoning it would be forward of the RPB.
I'd have thought if the APU isn't running their would be an isolator on the fuel line hopefully at the tank, but what if that failed or was left open (yes I know, Mr Occam is getting less happy as I go on, but still...).
Lastly, is it at all possible that the APU was actually running during the flight? I imagine there would be plenty of cockpit indication of that but it would enable the fuel leak - or possibly even APU malfunction of some kind. From photos I'm not suggesting destructive failure of APU, but possibly vibration, along with corroded cone attachment due to skydrol leak assisting cone departure or somesuch ...
Happy for all above to be discounted, but for some reason that long intact pipe section in the APU cone photos intrigues me.
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Q1. In the interests of public safety. Given the possibility that it was an act of terrorism carried out with a motive to destabilise Egypt (and maybe even bring up on it the fate of the poor people of Syria) , through damage to its source of revenue from tourism, then a threat exists for all foreign tourists of any nationality.
Q2. Not known as none in the public domain at present time.
Here in the UK the press must be pacing outside Whitehall waiting for the press announcement after the PM`s Cobra meeting.
Fly in and out of CAI fairly regularly and worth noting the security there actually has two levels. You can't get through to the check in desks without first passing through an initial baggage x ray and body check. You also are not allowed to proceed without a valid boarding pass or booking checked against the manifest (fun for standby staff travel).
Security is then conducted at the entrance to the gate waiting room, this has always seemed as effective as other airports to me.
Security is then conducted at the entrance to the gate waiting room, this has always seemed as effective as other airports to me.
All of the above is irrelevant if the security threat is a person/persons with an airside pass and access to the a/c movement/parking/maintenance areas.
I suspect this is the focus of attention of the British "security experts" dispatched to SSH this evening.
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conso,
ref 1) both HS missing
The left HS is shown in posts 730 and 762.
oldoberon, ref your interest in the aft frame at the HS,
Here is the frame during assembly. The large diameter tubes go to the pivot points of the HS center box, which are located on two fittings that span the gap between the upper and lower frames.
Those fittings and tubes are removed during the HS installation, shown in this screenshot at 5:30 in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03Zgs8WCArw This video also shows installation of the aft cone at 5:49, the VS at 6:15, the APU at 7:09 and one of the flight recorders at 7:32
In the video you posted, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OQigxFYIUg, the fittings and pivot point, but not the tubes, are shown installed at 2:05.
And from the photo of the wreckage, two-thirds of that frame, other structure and the HS are gone.
ref 1) both HS missing
The left HS is shown in posts 730 and 762.
oldoberon, ref your interest in the aft frame at the HS,
Here is the frame during assembly. The large diameter tubes go to the pivot points of the HS center box, which are located on two fittings that span the gap between the upper and lower frames.
Those fittings and tubes are removed during the HS installation, shown in this screenshot at 5:30 in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03Zgs8WCArw This video also shows installation of the aft cone at 5:49, the VS at 6:15, the APU at 7:09 and one of the flight recorders at 7:32
In the video you posted, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OQigxFYIUg, the fittings and pivot point, but not the tubes, are shown installed at 2:05.
And from the photo of the wreckage, two-thirds of that frame, other structure and the HS are gone.
what is that big grey chunk in the doorway, haven't seen it pn any images on prune.
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If I remember what I've seen and read regarding airliners brought down by bombs, the key technical difference when that happens has to do with metallurgy - IIRC a specific kind of "pitting" in the metal combined with the pressure vessel failing from the inside out. They've had people on the ground for long enough now that evidence of that nature is likely to have been found - enough to cause suspicion, if not certainty.
As far as the recorders go, I'm pretty sure that as long as the recording medium (the little grey cylinder bolted securely to the recorders) appears to be intact, there shouldn't be any issue with reading them...
As far as the recorders go, I'm pretty sure that as long as the recording medium (the little grey cylinder bolted securely to the recorders) appears to be intact, there shouldn't be any issue with reading them...
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Engine associated "flash & thermal event"?
Airtours 732 at Manchester and 777 at LAX?
On ground, no airflow and no significant dynamic loading.
Luckily (for some) rapidly attended to by Fire/Rescue services.
Now try the same at 30,000ft, with the N1s and N2s at maximum, sometimes over 100% in the case of the N1s and a healthy draught to propagate the inferno and see what happens?
Just a thought from an old geezer who's read too many accident reports, in 40+ years associated with the profession with some memory chips still readable...........................
Airtours 732 at Manchester and 777 at LAX?
On ground, no airflow and no significant dynamic loading.
Luckily (for some) rapidly attended to by Fire/Rescue services.
Now try the same at 30,000ft, with the N1s and N2s at maximum, sometimes over 100% in the case of the N1s and a healthy draught to propagate the inferno and see what happens?
Just a thought from an old geezer who's read too many accident reports, in 40+ years associated with the profession with some memory chips still readable...........................
Last edited by BARKINGMAD; 4th Nov 2015 at 20:54. Reason: Spelling of "case"!
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Reason for grounding of UK flights
The UK authorities suspect a breach of security at Shram El Sheik has allowed a bomb to be smuggled on to a plane. Due to their involvement in the Iraq bombing campaign against IS they feel more vulnerable than most countries.
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Yet another hypothesis
While no stone is being left unturned, here's another one:
Assuming that the cabin crew started heating food as soon as possible after takeoff, 25 minutes into the flight could conceivably be the time it takes for the food heaters to reach high temperature. One (or more) of those food packages could have been a bomb - disguised as a meal (breakfast?) – detonated by being heated to a moderately high temperature.
So obviously it would have happened in the rear galley, and powerful enough to knock out the rear section.
Assuming that the cabin crew started heating food as soon as possible after takeoff, 25 minutes into the flight could conceivably be the time it takes for the food heaters to reach high temperature. One (or more) of those food packages could have been a bomb - disguised as a meal (breakfast?) – detonated by being heated to a moderately high temperature.
So obviously it would have happened in the rear galley, and powerful enough to knock out the rear section.
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Engine associated "flash & thermal event"?
I think we would have seen at least a Mayday call or a drift down, even with a catastrophic engine failure. At 30000ft, would a fire be difficult to start from something like a punctured fuel tank?
I cannot recall many high level airframe fires, explosions at (near) cruise altitude because of the environment up there.....
I cannot recall many high level airframe fires, explosions at (near) cruise altitude because of the environment up there.....
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[EDIT : GIMF - It's the big red cylinder holding the media, the little grey one is the pinger, as you say.
]
Last edited by DozyWannabe; 4th Nov 2015 at 20:49.
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Assuming that the cabin crew started heating food as soon as possible after takeoff, 25 minutes into the flight could conceivably be the time it takes for the food heaters to reach high temperature. One (or more) of those food packages could have been a bomb - disguised as a meal (breakfast?) – detonated by being heated to a moderately high temperature.
But still I have no clear signal that bomb IS located. All investigation and security activity we are aware of just shows us that any other version was weighted and found less possible...
