Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

BREAKING NEWS: airliner missing within Egyptian FIR

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

BREAKING NEWS: airliner missing within Egyptian FIR

Old 4th Nov 2015, 17:54
  #901 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 1,022
Putin has a hard time convincing people it has nothing to do with the crash
Really? Can you give me direct proof about that?
Kulverstukas is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2015, 17:55
  #902 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 1,022
Kulverstukas, I wonder how 'engine blast' became 'explosive device' by No 10. Politics.
Sorry, don't get it?

Do you happen to know when the drone took the aerial views of the crash site?
This video at LifeNews site is November, 2nd
Kulverstukas is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2015, 18:00
  #903 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Estonia
Posts: 71
tail structure

At least half of the tail structure looks intact. Lower half... who knows. may be flattened by impact with ground, maybe destroyed in HS separation event.
Prada is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2015, 18:00
  #904 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 5
What would be the result if the pin that goes here either came out or failed, or the actuator that attatched to this broke/failed.

L8 Fr8 is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2015, 18:07
  #905 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Russia
Age: 37
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by Kulverstukas
Really? Can you give me direct proof about that?
It's in the Russian news:

TASS: Russian Politics & Diplomacy - Kremlin warns against linking A321 crash in Egypt with Russia?s operation in Syria

But I have certainly exaggerated it by saying "having a hard time".
Sergey Tachenov is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2015, 18:10
  #906 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: wales
Age: 76
Posts: 316
Originally Posted by Prada View Post
At least half of the tail structure looks intact. Lower half... who knows. may be flattened by impact with ground, maybe destroyed in HS separation event.
anyone know where the original is from, trying to get a higher res or bigger version of it

Last edited by oldoberon; 4th Nov 2015 at 19:58. Reason: colourise request for help
oldoberon is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2015, 18:11
  #907 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 1,022
Sergey, moreover, ""Hypothetic insinuations on that score are inappropriate. Besides, these are absolutely different issues. There is no point in linking them," Peskov said, when asked if progress in Russia’s operation in Syria might be affected if it was confirmed the plane had fallen victim to a terrorist attack."

As I said, message is clear: We doesn't make trades with terrorists.
Kulverstukas is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2015, 18:14
  #908 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Birmingham, UK
Posts: 56
The British government has decided to halt flights from Sharm el-Sheikh:

Quote:

"While the investigation is still ongoing we cannot say categorically why the Russian jet crashed. But as more information has come to light we have become concerned that the plane may well have been brought down by an explosive device."

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/s...harm-el-sheikh
AndyJS is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2015, 18:16
  #909 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: At home
Posts: 26
As someone who is due to operate a Sharm this weekend I have to admit I've been seriously worried these past few days. I've been saying for months (not on here) that the next place, after Tunisia to receive this treatment would be Sharm. It took six weeks for our company to circulate the NOTAM regarding St Catherine which I found far from ideal. I operated a number of SSH flights during this six week period, one of which took me straight over CAT below 25,000' because 22R was in use. My eyes are on stalks every time I go near the place and brief the other guy if I see anything untoward I'll be taking evasive action.

IF, and it's a big IF this tragedy is sinister, why can't we just get the RAF down there with their bomb dog squad and go through everything checked in, and the aircraft prior to departure? To me it's the only way we can reduce a bomb threat to its lowest acceptable level. The Dogs won't lie and identify anyone, or item of baggage that'll be suspicious.
Sprinkles is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2015, 18:16
  #910 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York / Southern France
Age: 65
Posts: 95
Just sticking for a moment with the earlier Egyptian statement talking about an "engine explosion", is there anything in the photos so far of the engines themselves - or adjacent fuselage - that would support that (appreciating that, whatever the cause, those engines fell far, fast and hard and have huge final impact damage)?

I recall many messages ago someone looking at a photo of one of the engines and saying something about missing fan parts. But I now can't find that post.
AGBagb is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2015, 18:20
  #911 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 1,022








Kulverstukas is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2015, 18:21
  #912 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Age: 62
Posts: 157
Sprinkles
quote ''As someone who is due to operate a Sharm this weekend I have to admit I've been seriously worried these past few days. I've been saying for months (not on here) that the next place, after Tunisia to receive this treatment would be Sharm. It took six weeks for our company to circulate the NOTAM regarding St Catherine which I found far from ideal. I operated a number of SSH flights during this six week period, one of which took me straight over CAT below 25,000' because 22R was in use. My eyes are on stalks every time I go near the place and brief the other guy if I see anything untoward I'll be taking evasive action.

IF, and it's a big IF this tragedy is sinister, why can't we just get the RAF down there with their bomb dog squad and go through everything checked in, and the aircraft prior to departure? To me it's the only way we can reduce a bomb threat to its lowest acceptable level. The Dogs won't lie and identify anyone, or item of baggage that'll be suspicious

i'm amazed that descents were allowed too - my pal a 757 skip out of BRS
had the same - he's ex RAF and did not like it one bit



indeed - trouble is the Metrojet had been on the ground for 12 hours so this occasion any bomb could have been placed on board not in baggage but by an airport worker in the pay of dirty others
rog747 is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2015, 18:21
  #913 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Birmingham, UK
Posts: 56
Is security known to be lax at Sharm el-Sheikh?
AndyJS is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2015, 18:22
  #914 (permalink)  
Resident insomniac
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: N54 58 34 W02 01 21
Age: 75
Posts: 1,859
According the BBC's aviation expert, UK crews operating into Sharm are 'at the limit of their hours', so delays for departures from Sharm are likely to result in cancellations, or stops in Europe for replacement crews.
G-CPTN is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2015, 18:25
  #915 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 1,022
Another engine?

Kulverstukas is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2015, 18:28
  #916 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Schiphol
Posts: 331
@AGBagb ... fan

Dont know if you mean one of my 'update' posts ...

Found pictures of 2 different engines. I call them A and B as i have no been able to link them to either left or right wing positions yet.

Found pictures of 2 different fans. The first still has all blades (or 1 is missing) and all visible blades are complete end to end. The second clearly has a number of broken blades.
One of the spinners is clearly sooted (would have to check which one), while the engine itself is away from a 'burned area'. So a preliminary impression is that there was a fire at some stage inside the engine. Not possible to say of course if this was during the flight, during the descent or after the engine hit the ground. There is no clear evidence of fire at the outside of the engines. And no trace of 'shrapnel' damage. The leading edge of the cowlings and the cowling doors have separated but are close to the engines (as far as i can see now).

Hope this answers part of your question.
A0283 is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2015, 18:30
  #917 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 5
"Russian media outlet LifeNews claims that more than 200 fragments of human remains from approximately 150 people have arrived in St Petersburg.
According to sources, there was a significant difference in the cause of death between passengers at the front and the rear of the aircraft.
Those at the front suffered 'blunt force trauma of the chest, abdomen and pelvis with multiple fractures of upper and lower limbs with tears to the internal organs. Deaths occurred due to acute blood loss, shock and open head injuries.'
Those at the rear of aircraft suffered 'explosive trauma with multiple burns over 90 per cent of their soft tissues'.
Passengers at the back had shrapnel injuries and were peppered with metal particles."

Russian plane crash reveals ?no proof it broke up in mid-air', Egypt claims | Daily Mail Online
L8 Fr8 is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2015, 18:30
  #918 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York / Southern France
Age: 65
Posts: 95
Kulverstukas - thanks for those engine pics. Without context, it's difficult to say. But a guess would be that the fan assembly is lying somewhat near the engine (maybe...) and has separated from it on final impact?

And AO283, thanks too. My impression is that nothing in the photos is screaming out major engine failure but of course photos can be deceptive and imcomplete (as well as me being no expert in the engineering of all this!).
AGBagb is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2015, 18:34
  #919 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: PLanet Earth
Posts: 800
Originally Posted by thcrozier View Post
Those were frightenly high frequency phugoids, on the order of 8 seconds bottom to top.


Very good Observation!
Even GA aircraft usually have phugoides around 20s. Airliners typically 40 - 60s. 8s is a clear indications something is totally wrong. You would get a high frequency phugoide if the angle of incidence is very different between wing and tailplane. Which would fit quite well to the assumption that the HS must have experienced a significant excursion.
henra is online now  
Old 4th Nov 2015, 18:34
  #920 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 66
The more photographic evidence I see, the more and more it looks like a heat/flash event occurred at altitude and certainly before wreckage hit the ground.

Whatever the exact cause and sequence of events, this must surely exclude simple mechanical, structural and crew-related actions as the cause because they would simply have not resulted in a fire event.

It would be hasty and unwise to read too much into the suspension of UK airline flights from SSH and an imminent COBRA meeting, but it would not be unreasonable to conclude that those in authority now have information (that we don't have) that gives them a good reason to be cautious.
RTM Boy is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.