Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

American Eagle CRJ900 scrapes wing on landing

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

American Eagle CRJ900 scrapes wing on landing

Old 1st Oct 2015, 05:00
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ijatta
Posts: 435
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
B-52's excepted.
wanabee777 is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2015, 08:08
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: last time I looked I was still here.
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It's not the bank that concerns me so much, but rather the very high nose attitude. There may be reasons for the bank, e.g. wake as has been mentioned. But why the high nose? Was the reason for the large bank also causing some sink and thus a heavy handed pull back?
What experience did the captain have and were they 'covering the controls'? Mind you, this close to the ground it can be difficult to intervene.
RAT 5 is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2015, 11:21
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Sandpit
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Dreptai :

Cheers to FIRESYSOKS for editing out the "female FO" part
.

Yet you put it back in the thread . Real intelligent !!!!
Stone_cold is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2015, 11:29
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Soon to be out of the EU.
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Wow, so even with interconnected flight controls the captain still couldn't save the landing. I thought it was just Airbii where you couldn't help if the other one screws up the landing.
HeartyMeatballs is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2015, 12:26
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Surrounded by aluminum, and the great outdoors
Posts: 3,781
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
on the Airbus you can help...by pushing the red button and taking over...done it more than once....
ironbutt57 is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2015, 13:45
  #26 (permalink)  
Trash du Blanc
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: KBHM
Posts: 1,185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Pitch up in the smoke picture looks excessive to me. Perhaps the right wing stalled, followed by the left wing resulting in a hard landing.
Yep. Either wrong approach speed or they held it off too long. Either way it looks like a stall.....
Huck is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2015, 14:29
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: everywhere
Posts: 502
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So that's how you bend a wing to make winglets.
flyhardmo is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2015, 14:39
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Mosquitoville
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
MESA, contracted by legacy airlines to do their regional routes at rock bottom prices. Pilots living in caravans and on food stamps, what do you expect ?
I expect that they are people that are passionate about flying and love it enough to try do it for a living even though pay and quality of life sucks....or why else would anybody choose a profession with such dismal payoff prospects for the time and money invested to start.

Personally I think that people that choose a profession out of enjoyment tend to be more competent than those that choose a profession based on economic reasons.

Of course all of the above is in generality and there can always be outlying examples... same as the original statement. With that said... I still find it sad when one disparages junior people in their own profession when they in fact were probably in the same position once upon a time.
Sorry Dog is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2015, 15:39
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ijatta
Posts: 435
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Sorry Dog
I still find it sad when one disparages junior people in their own profession when they in fact were probably in the same position once upon a time.
No disparaging here, but someone, at the very least, is going to get some time off for retraining.
wanabee777 is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2015, 18:00
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Avon, CT, USA
Age: 68
Posts: 470
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
How about Southwest's landing at LGA a while ago?

New hires need 1,000 TPIC and a B737 type rating to get hired there.


Or Korean B777 at SFO.
ATPMBA is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2015, 18:39
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: flying by night
Posts: 500
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Yet you put it back in the thread . Real intelligent !!!!
To please you, I edited it out. Now you would need to remove it from your post, if you want it gone I did get a bit miffed reading the issue I referred to. I felt the comment was rather uncalled for and unprofessional. It seemed to imply a broad generalization based on anecdotal evidence, a blast from the past which is not helpful for the aviation industry at all. I've yet to see an accident report stating (...) as a factor. [/rant over]
deptrai is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2015, 20:02
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Rocky Mts High
Age: 61
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
F/O and skipper...expat or local. Why nobody asking? Latino, African or Asian? Cat got the tongues?
Samba Anaconda is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2015, 20:12
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Or-E-Gun, USA
Posts: 326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
What a Shot!

Talk about the right place and time; one of the best pix I've seen in a long time.
Now, about the flying??? I know nothing of this AC type. I'm quit sure that a minimal 8Kt x-wind won't 'blow' the AC into this attitude unless the driver gives it a lot of help. Apparently the FO was PF. I'd guess that she had NO IDEA WTF she as doing. The report on this incident and well as the gear-up landing in Germany will make very interesting reading.
No Fly Zone is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2015, 21:50
  #34 (permalink)  

Aviator Extraordinaire
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma USA
Age: 76
Posts: 2,394
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by peekay4
Interesting.

737NG FCTM has this wording:


787 FCTM:


With regards to the "other company", Airbus notes:


I don't know about the CRJ900 specifically but a lot of bizjets and regionals have very small bank angle margin at landing attitude and must use some crab on strong crosswinds.

While apparently there may be exceptions, in general I agree with FSF:
Cannot speak for RJs or Airbus, however, that is what it reads for Falcon 50s/900s and the Boeing 727.

So it is not just you that knows this basic cross wind procedure for many aircraft, including Boeings and some corporate jet aircraft.

The bank angel limitation on the Falcons was due to wingtip clearance from the runway (including turf runway), the 727 was for the above, BTY the 707 was for the outboard engines clearance. No turf runway approval for the 707 as far as I know.
con-pilot is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2015, 22:11
  #35 (permalink)  

Aviator Extraordinaire
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma USA
Age: 76
Posts: 2,394
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by No Fly Zone
Talk about the right place and time; one of the best pix I've seen in a long time.
Now, about the flying??? I know nothing of this AC type. I'm quit sure that a minimal 8Kt x-wind won't 'blow' the AC into this attitude unless the driver gives it a lot of help. Apparently the FO was PF. I'd guess that she had NO IDEA WTF she as doing. The report on this incident and well as the gear-up landing in Germany will make very interesting reading.
If you are going to insinuate something about a certain type of pilot, whether if you are inferring to 'female' or 'low paid' or not, have the common courtesy to post a link to the accident you inferred to.

This is not the "Jet Blast" forum.

Last edited by flowerseller; 1st Oct 2015 at 22:21. Reason: I edited this post because I posted it under my name of con-pilot. People that post such tripe need to be held to account.
con-pilot is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2015, 12:04
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ijatta
Posts: 435
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Plane spotter catches moment when wing of landing regional jet scrapes runway

From USA Today:

Plane spotter catches moment when wing of landing regional jet scrapes runway
wanabee777 is offline  
Old 3rd Oct 2015, 17:44
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Brussels
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

The FCOM recommended crosswind landing technique changed a couple of years ago to the forward slip method:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Boeing
The maneuver recommended for crosswind landing requires cross-controlling, using the rudder to align the airplane fuselage with the runway, and aileron input sufficient to arrest crosswind-induced drift.

Below approximately 200 feet AGL, gradually apply rudder so as to align the longitudinal axis (heading) of the airplane with the runway centerline.
Interesting. Personally, I don't like the Chinese crosswind method (Whun Wing Lo). I was taught this and can do it, but in gusty conditions you can get confused as to what is roll to counteract yaw and what is roll to counteract turbulence. I find that students get equally confused.

Best to leave the crab until the last 20 ft, kick straight and counterbalance with roll. It is simple, better for the tyres, better for the undercarriage, more comfortable for the pax, and is less likely to end in a skid. I have seen odd reactions to the instant yaw caused by ploking it on with full crab, resulting in PIO peddling, which is not recommended.

And with regards to ground clearance, I have banked the 737 to enormous angles, and never hit anything. What feels like a huge angle of bank, is not really that bad if you look from the outside. Doubt if you will ever get much beyond 5o, without feeling seasick.

Oh, and yes, I have mentioned this for at least two decades. I was taught to land in a variety of very difficult tail-draggers of all types and sizes, and so my landing technique was honed quite well. And I was somewhat shocked to find in jet aviation that x-wind landing was the last and least important box to tick.
silvertate is offline  
Old 3rd Oct 2015, 19:58
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: last time I looked I was still here.
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It much depends on type. B737 I used a hybrid technique: this was due to airframe limitations and handling characteristics. B757/767 with LOOOOng undercarriage I preferred side-slip for the last 200'. Bootiful.
RAT 5 is offline  
Old 3rd Oct 2015, 20:13
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,257
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Well, at 30 kts crosswind and 132 kts approach speed you need around 9 degrees bank angle if no crab.

Assuming a 5 degree landing attitude, some 737 classics will smack parts on the ground at around 10.5 degrees bank.

That means just a 1.5 degree margin.

Also if the flare is held for too long, it's not unusual for the pitch attitude to rise 2-3 degrees further. That will diminish the roll margin to zero.
peekay4 is offline  
Old 3rd Oct 2015, 20:22
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: last time I looked I was still here.
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Yes but; we can talk about angles all night long. Look at the attitude in the photo: now consider yourself on the inside sitting in the hot seat on RHS. Looking outside of the front window it must have been exciting and probably looked worse than from three outside. What were the control inputs?
RAT 5 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.