American Eagle CRJ900 scrapes wing on landing
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It's not the bank that concerns me so much, but rather the very high nose attitude. There may be reasons for the bank, e.g. wake as has been mentioned. But why the high nose? Was the reason for the large bank also causing some sink and thus a heavy handed pull back?
What experience did the captain have and were they 'covering the controls'? Mind you, this close to the ground it can be difficult to intervene.
What experience did the captain have and were they 'covering the controls'? Mind you, this close to the ground it can be difficult to intervene.
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Wow, so even with interconnected flight controls the captain still couldn't save the landing. I thought it was just Airbii where you couldn't help if the other one screws up the landing.
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Pitch up in the smoke picture looks excessive to me. Perhaps the right wing stalled, followed by the left wing resulting in a hard landing.
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MESA, contracted by legacy airlines to do their regional routes at rock bottom prices. Pilots living in caravans and on food stamps, what do you expect ?
Personally I think that people that choose a profession out of enjoyment tend to be more competent than those that choose a profession based on economic reasons.
Of course all of the above is in generality and there can always be outlying examples... same as the original statement. With that said... I still find it sad when one disparages junior people in their own profession when they in fact were probably in the same position once upon a time.
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Originally Posted by Sorry Dog
I still find it sad when one disparages junior people in their own profession when they in fact were probably in the same position once upon a time.
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Yet you put it back in the thread . Real intelligent !!!!
I did get a bit miffed reading the issue I referred to. I felt the comment was rather uncalled for and unprofessional. It seemed to imply a broad generalization based on anecdotal evidence, a blast from the past which is not helpful for the aviation industry at all. I've yet to see an accident report stating (...) as a factor. [/rant over]
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What a Shot!
Talk about the right place and time; one of the best pix I've seen in a long time.
Now, about the flying??? I know nothing of this AC type. I'm quit sure that a minimal 8Kt x-wind won't 'blow' the AC into this attitude unless the driver gives it a lot of help. Apparently the FO was PF. I'd guess that she had NO IDEA WTF she as doing. The report on this incident and well as the gear-up landing in Germany will make very interesting reading.
Now, about the flying??? I know nothing of this AC type. I'm quit sure that a minimal 8Kt x-wind won't 'blow' the AC into this attitude unless the driver gives it a lot of help. Apparently the FO was PF. I'd guess that she had NO IDEA WTF she as doing. The report on this incident and well as the gear-up landing in Germany will make very interesting reading.
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Interesting.
737NG FCTM has this wording:
787 FCTM:
With regards to the "other company", Airbus notes:
I don't know about the CRJ900 specifically but a lot of bizjets and regionals have very small bank angle margin at landing attitude and must use some crab on strong crosswinds.
While apparently there may be exceptions, in general I agree with FSF:
737NG FCTM has this wording:
787 FCTM:
With regards to the "other company", Airbus notes:
I don't know about the CRJ900 specifically but a lot of bizjets and regionals have very small bank angle margin at landing attitude and must use some crab on strong crosswinds.
While apparently there may be exceptions, in general I agree with FSF:
So it is not just you that knows this basic cross wind procedure for many aircraft, including Boeings and some corporate jet aircraft.
The bank angel limitation on the Falcons was due to wingtip clearance from the runway (including turf runway), the 727 was for the above, BTY the 707 was for the outboard engines clearance. No turf runway approval for the 707 as far as I know.
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Talk about the right place and time; one of the best pix I've seen in a long time.
Now, about the flying??? I know nothing of this AC type. I'm quit sure that a minimal 8Kt x-wind won't 'blow' the AC into this attitude unless the driver gives it a lot of help. Apparently the FO was PF. I'd guess that she had NO IDEA WTF she as doing. The report on this incident and well as the gear-up landing in Germany will make very interesting reading.
Now, about the flying??? I know nothing of this AC type. I'm quit sure that a minimal 8Kt x-wind won't 'blow' the AC into this attitude unless the driver gives it a lot of help. Apparently the FO was PF. I'd guess that she had NO IDEA WTF she as doing. The report on this incident and well as the gear-up landing in Germany will make very interesting reading.
This is not the "Jet Blast" forum.
Last edited by flowerseller; 1st Oct 2015 at 21:21. Reason: I edited this post because I posted it under my name of con-pilot. People that post such tripe need to be held to account.
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Plane spotter catches moment when wing of landing regional jet scrapes runway
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The FCOM recommended crosswind landing technique changed a couple of years ago to the forward slip method:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Boeing
The maneuver recommended for crosswind landing requires cross-controlling, using the rudder to align the airplane fuselage with the runway, and aileron input sufficient to arrest crosswind-induced drift.
Below approximately 200 feet AGL, gradually apply rudder so as to align the longitudinal axis (heading) of the airplane with the runway centerline.
Best to leave the crab until the last 20 ft, kick straight and counterbalance with roll. It is simple, better for the tyres, better for the undercarriage, more comfortable for the pax, and is less likely to end in a skid. I have seen odd reactions to the instant yaw caused by ploking it on with full crab, resulting in PIO peddling, which is not recommended.
And with regards to ground clearance, I have banked the 737 to enormous angles, and never hit anything. What feels like a huge angle of bank, is not really that bad if you look from the outside. Doubt if you will ever get much beyond 5o, without feeling seasick.
Oh, and yes, I have mentioned this for at least two decades. I was taught to land in a variety of very difficult tail-draggers of all types and sizes, and so my landing technique was honed quite well. And I was somewhat shocked to find in jet aviation that x-wind landing was the last and least important box to tick.
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It much depends on type. B737 I used a hybrid technique: this was due to airframe limitations and handling characteristics. B757/767 with LOOOOng undercarriage I preferred side-slip for the last 200'. Bootiful.
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Well, at 30 kts crosswind and 132 kts approach speed you need around 9 degrees bank angle if no crab.
Assuming a 5 degree landing attitude, some 737 classics will smack parts on the ground at around 10.5 degrees bank.
That means just a 1.5 degree margin.
Also if the flare is held for too long, it's not unusual for the pitch attitude to rise 2-3 degrees further. That will diminish the roll margin to zero.
Assuming a 5 degree landing attitude, some 737 classics will smack parts on the ground at around 10.5 degrees bank.
That means just a 1.5 degree margin.
Also if the flare is held for too long, it's not unusual for the pitch attitude to rise 2-3 degrees further. That will diminish the roll margin to zero.
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Yes but; we can talk about angles all night long. Look at the attitude in the photo: now consider yourself on the inside sitting in the hot seat on RHS. Looking outside of the front window it must have been exciting and probably looked worse than from three outside. What were the control inputs?