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Emergency exit opens during Swiss flight!

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Emergency exit opens during Swiss flight!

Old 1st Oct 2015, 23:14
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Re "Am I the only one that finds the above part quite disturbing?"

Untill further, it seems so.

Things that are supposed to be closed should of course remain closed, and if not that will be investigated and acted upon.

However, during landing, you could open any door or window on the aircraft without any adverse effects other than some noise and a mild breeze.
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Old 2nd Oct 2015, 01:01
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Assuming a light load of un-awake passengers on a late night takeoff how would this be noticed after takeoff rotation? annunciated or air noise?
When airborne, the only thing of note would be handle sticking out. There is no extra noise. The aircraft's pressurisation would be placing several hundred pounds pressure on the hatch keeping it shut. A very, very strong person might mange to pull the handle off, certainly not open the door. On the ground, typically there is more noise, unless of course the hatch falls in. Having the inlet of a Tay within 20 feet would mean everybody would know something unusual has happened. It's even noisier on a F70 as some of our passengers found out.

PM
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Old 2nd Oct 2015, 08:19
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Am I the only one that finds the above part quite disturbing?
No you're not.

What seems to have happened here is that a plug type door came loose.

Furthermore it would appear that it is an emergency exit, and that it is one of those that you're supposed to pull inwards and then discard.

Therefore it has no hinges, nothing to restrain it to its door frame other the catches operated by the handle. Which has moved far enough to open up a 3-4cm gap which passengers can see through. One supposes that the catches are in effect entirely disengaged.

That means that when that aircraft landed a reasonably heavy lump of metal work was not fully restrained, and close to being free to bounce around the cabin on landing. It wasn't about to fall outwards - it's a plug - it could only fall into the cabin.

Looking at the angle of the door in the photos it would seem ripe for being dislodged by a good heavy bump on landing. If that landing had been heavy I imagine that a loose door would cause considerable carnage, especially if had developed into a go-around.
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Old 2nd Oct 2015, 09:00
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe the safety briefing should include the explanation of the difference between a handhold and a handle... Highly improbably that it moved down by itself.
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Old 2nd Oct 2015, 09:32
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Volume
Highly improbably that it moved down by itself.
Posts #12:

Originally Posted by thatoneoranother
the handle cover fell (we all heard the noise) without being touched by anybody and the handle half opened - the aircraft was full and any passenger would have noticed an intentional action to open it!!!
And 13:

Originally Posted by Piltdown Man
But the wire is regularly broken and the handle can fall to the open position.
would suggest that that's exactly what did happen.
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Old 2nd Oct 2015, 10:40
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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As SLF, I would have instantly pinged a member of the CC. I would not have laid a finger on it.
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Old 5th Oct 2015, 21:29
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Because everytime Doors and emergency exit is discussed it seems like some people take for granted that these are always plug type.
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Old 5th Oct 2015, 22:03
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15 minutes before landing. This would typically put the aircraft at or above FL100. At that time, there still should be some pressure differential putting a load on the exit.

It has been a while since I have last flown the Fokker. But I seem to remember that the overwing exits move in a little bit when one pulls the lever - so looking at the picture, I am distinctly under the impression that this has not happened on its own. On top of this, in several years on this type (both F70 and F100), the few times I have had (or even heard of) an overwing exit open without good cause have all been passenger related. Reasons ranged from curiosity that killed no cat, but cancelled the flight to a passenger that felt the need for some fresh air just after boarding and only saw the problem with opening the windows on an airliner after a stern lecture.
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Old 5th Oct 2015, 22:23
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overwing exits move in a little bit when one pulls the lever

yes. some assume a door can not be plug type just because it is rotated outward in the fully open position. there's more complex mechanisms

passenger related

there's all kinds of explanations, including "I thought it was the toilet"...
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Old 6th Oct 2015, 00:25
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Hmm I think you are right deptrai.

Even though the door frame isn't larger than the opening (a la traditional plug-type doors), there seems to be a physical stopper mechanism which prevents the door from being jettisoned outwards. So effectively the door is still a plug-type and cannot be opened if there's enough pressure differential.
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Old 6th Oct 2015, 14:43
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I would be interested in the thoughts behind the MD8n/717 and Fokker plug type doors. According to the instructions the SLF is expected to stand-up, face the rear of the aircraft pull the handle then unplug and lift the door into the aircraft and lay it on and against the back of the seat.

The overheads are very low in these aircraft so as the hits the fan you unbuckle and adopting a quasimodo style hunch turn around and try to open and lift the far heavier than you thought emergency exit into the aircraft while several dozen people seat surf at you dragging their rollaboards.

In comparison the 737 outward doors seem far more sensible at least the door is moving in the way everyone wants to go.
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Old 6th Oct 2015, 16:13
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That must be the newer NG 737 because the older classics had similar doors as described above.
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Old 6th Oct 2015, 16:44
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Can someone explain to me the photo in the OP?

It appears at the top of the exit that the nadle has dropped and that the door (fascia) has a gap at the top.

It is what is to the left that I do not understand. It appears to be clear air, as if that part of the fuselage were missing. It's not a glimpse of rolling countryside through a chink of a slightly ajar exit - it appears to be far far bigger than that, yet the exxit seems to be relatively flush with the fuselage.

I'm assuming that I'm missing something, but I can't see it.
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Old 6th Oct 2015, 16:47
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Quote from Ian W:
"I would be interested in the thoughts behind the MD8n/717 and Fokker plug type doors. According to the instructions the SLF is expected to stand-up, face the rear of the aircraft pull the handle then unplug and lift the door into the aircraft and lay it on and against the back of the seat."

In my experience (not on F100s), it certainly isn't an easy manoeuvre, particularly with other passengers in the way, although the seat pitch is greater than between other seat rows. But, AFAIK, in no case is it recommended to place the door on a seat after its removal. The instructions tell you in effect to rotate the door (which is really a hatch) in two axes to enable it to be thrown outside as far clear as possible. Tricky if you have back trouble already. The door usually ends up on the wing, unless it falls off the leading edge.

As 4468, FE Hoppy and Piltdown Man have already intimated, these plug-type doors cannot open inwards with even the slightest of positive differential-pressure. So, unless there was a pressurisation failure 15 mins before landing, it seems likely that in this incident only the handle and the trim panel moved.
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Old 6th Oct 2015, 16:54
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Turin, Yes, the 737 NG overwing exits are a new design. "self-disposing" - you open it and it flings outwards. 2 springs and a hydraulic damper. You don't need to apply any force (quite contrarily, be careful not to hold it else it will pull you...). No plug, no initial inward motion, but "flight locks", 28V solenoids that lock/unlock based on how many main doors are open, thrust setting etc. Unlike older non-plug doors, the design seems safe enough, no incidents reported (?). Regulators like the design, because it's very quick to open in an emergency. I believe bombardier C series use a similar design, and more aircraft may follow. Only drawback that has been reported so far is that they're not level with the floor.
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Old 6th Oct 2015, 17:02
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Before anyone takes the bother to correct me on my last post I can see it more clearly now.

In my defence, I had cranial surgery a year ago and my eyesight dims through the day to the extent that I use a braille keyboard in the late evening...
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