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Aer Lingus flight EI110 makes emergency landing in JFK

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Aer Lingus flight EI110 makes emergency landing in JFK

Old 30th Sep 2015, 18:45
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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I'll agree that you don't have to be re-dispatched to proceed to a listed alternate for weather.

I think there is an underlying (common sense?) assumption that the departure airport is planned as an alternate destination, else FAR 121 wouldn't need to specify criteria for listing a takeoff alternate. Disclaimer: I am no expert on FAR 121 and obviously everyone should check with their outfit rather than listening to anonymous posters like me.

Last edited by deptrai; 30th Sep 2015 at 21:31.
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Old 1st Oct 2015, 16:42
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Airbubs, with considerable respect and creaping the thread a bit, you would REALLY declare an emergency because you didn't fancy crossing the pond on two out of three hydraulic systems ? Gosh ! May I suggest that rather than asking the Senior Cabin Attendant " Drills complete........What's for Dinner, Luv?" you might , at least, return, hold, burn off fuel to a lower landing weight, and for CRM pundits, call company, call Mum, call wifey or ex Girl-friend, have a team meeting with the crew in the forward galley, check with junior CA if she agrees with the team decision.....................er, and then, Blimey, land. Landflap suggests that there was more to this than just a single system failure. Back up on the Boeings is immense and two out of three hydraulic systems out would be "Land at the nearest". One out of three, even a major system, is catered for. I agree with Landflap. CONTINUE. Burning off fuel all the way, loadsa time to consider options. Crikey, not your day if you lose another system over the pond because that means Dinner at Goose or Kef ! Not convinced that even that is an"Emergency" ! State of "Urgency"......yes. Depends on what's on the menu at Goose or Kef. Hate fish.

Just to be clear ARTIFICIAL HORIZON ; "Tea & biscuits" with the Management for us UK cousins means that you are in deep doo dah ! No cause for Celebration (!)

Safe flying boys. Boeing boys know that if you are in trouble................LOWER THE RAT !!
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Old 1st Oct 2015, 17:44
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As a matter of interest, have you ever been in a situation where you have had to lower the RAT? I can remember doing an air test on a DC-10 which involved lowering the RAT. It worked fine but it made one hell of a noise (at 250 knots). God knows what it would have sounded like at 0.82M at 30W.
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Old 1st Oct 2015, 18:19
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Airbubs, with considerable respect and creaping the thread a bit, you would REALLY declare an emergency because you didn't fancy crossing the pond on two out of three hydraulic systems ? Gosh ! May I suggest that rather than asking the Senior Cabin Attendant " Drills complete........What's for Dinner, Luv?" you might , at least, return, hold, burn off fuel to a lower landing weight, and for CRM pundits, call company, call Mum, call wifey or ex Girl-friend, have a team meeting with the crew in the forward galley, check with junior CA if she agrees with the team decision.....................er, and then, Blimey, land.
I think you're starting to understand the mindset of this here new fangled CRM stuff. In fact, it's called something else these days, I can't rightly remember.

And a lot of these 'new' ways of thinking in the U.S. do seem to filter down over the pond after a while to other countries. Like CVR's (I know, invented by an Ozmate), locked cockpit doors, CRM, random drug and alcohol tests, FA on the flight deck when a pilot is absent etc.

My comments above reflect my understanding of current U.S. thinking on declaring an emergency. In recent years it seems, to me, that we are taught to explicitly declare an emergency as a precaution even with a fairly minor abnormality.

But, as I observed earlier, there may be a good reason not to do so under the regs the EI wet lease crew were using.

Even though they didn't declare an emergency, I would suggest that it was a good thing the fire trucks were at the runway when the wheel fire broke out. As demonstrated recently with the BA 777 in LAS, even a 90 second delay can make a big difference.

Also, I get the strong impression that doing a crossing with a major hydraulic systems failure prior to going oceanic is less warmly embraced by the FAA than in years past. Of course, the bean counters would have you fly across on one motor if it saved the company money.

Thinking about it a little more and listening to the well edited LiveAtc recording, it may be the case that the EI 757 only had a left hydraulic failure without any flap asymmetry and chose not to do the crossing. The crew said there may be hydraulic fluid on the runway, did the failure occur at gear retraction perhaps? It would have been a flaps 20 landing back at JFK, possibly still overweight even with the holding while running the checklists.

I'm told some B-752's have fuel dump, I've never knowingly seen one. And a couple have inflight refueling.

Is there some place online a preliminary report of this incident will be posted?

I haven't seen anything so far on the FAA's Preliminary Accident and Incident web page.
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Old 1st Oct 2015, 20:29
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Missing MayDay Call?

After some thought, I think I agree with those suggesting that the only missing element is declaring emergency. And for the reasons cited. First, it alerts ATC that there IS a problem, one that they should prepare for - by rolling the equipment and other details. (Turns out that the equi. was needed...) Truly sad to says it, but the truth is, in today's flying environment a certain amount of CYA IS necessary. Declaring it an emergency provides that CYA for the crew as well as giving them many more options about where to fly, how and when to turn and whatever runway they deem best for their instant needs.
Otherwise, getting it back on the ground with no injuries and no (new) damage is kinda-mebbie-sorta all that matters. I'd call it a Good Day for all on EI110.
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Old 1st Oct 2015, 22:44
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Too much speculation here.

LE or TE Asym or Disagree would incur speed and fuel burn restrictions/penalties and preclude a crossing.

Further failure would likely lead to a 'land at nearest suitable'.

Wiser to be turning back to a major hub with all the toys than pitching off into the unknown with your fingers crossed.

Pax safety trumps commercial considerations.

Correct decision by the crew. Well managed. Safe outcome.

End of.
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Old 2nd Oct 2015, 04:35
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The decision to continue or return, to declare an emergency or not, rests with the captain.
He elected to return. Fine. Had he continued with only one hyd system u/s, that would have been ok too. Boeing does not say land at nearest airport with this failure. You are (correct me if I'm wrong) ok for ETOPS with two hyd systems.

Mayday? I don't know. If you declare emergency, you pretty much shut down the airport. We return for a multitude of reasons. If we all shout mayday every time "just in case" or to be able to "do what we want", it will have a big impact on everybody else.
Mayday have a definition. Why not use it to decide?
What is wrong with Pan?
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Old 2nd Oct 2015, 08:11
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Thread drift:

@slowjet....

Tea and medals : sterling effort
Tea and biscuits : Good Job
Tea, no biscuits : regular line 'chat'
No tea and biscuits : poor show
Hats on : P45 /Locker clearing imminent
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