BA 777 on fire in Las Vegas

[Whip]

Re #257

Airbubba asked :-

At BA can any of the flight deck crew members call a rejected takeoff?

Either PH or PNH may call "Stop".
I can only recall that the general concensus concerning other crew members in the flightdeck was that they should just draw attention to any missed warning. (I can't remember any definitive answer in the Training Manual.)

Is there still a long laundry list of memory items at BA?

13 Checklists have memory items. Most of these have 1 or 2 lines
eg ABORTED ENGINE START
Fuel Control Switch ... Cutoff

There are 6 which are more complicated.
eg Windshear Go Around; Cabin Altitude & perhaps of more interest,
PASSENGER EVACUATION
- Captain's actions
Parking Brake ... Set
Fuel Control Switches (both) ... Off
Passenger Evacuation ... Initiate
----“This is an emergency. Evacuate. Evacuate. (Hazards at .... )”
---Evac Command Switch ... On
---ATC and/or Grd Crew ... Notify

For the benefit of those who are unfamiliar with Electronic Checklists and their contribution to improved flight safety, the following may be of interest. If the aircraft detects that a Warning or Caution checklist needs to be accomplished, it/they are listed (on B777: by the engine parameters on the central screen). If more than one, then in critical order.
If the checklist has memory items, they are called for and accomplished as I previously described and then PH will call (for this example) FIRE ENGINE LEFT CHECKLIST. PNH calls up the checklist on the central lower screen, which will automatically bring up the top priority checklist. The aircraft can sense which actions have been accomplished and these will be displayed in green writing. Anything in white is an action still required and will either turn green as soon as you have moved the switch or else need you to tick the box to turn it green. At the end is shown useful information (eg decreased crosswind limit; reduced landing flap).
Most importantly, at the very end, the (for this example) FIRE ENGINE LEFT CHECKLIST COMPLETED will only show highlighted when all items have been sensed or ticked off and this highlight is confirmed by both pilots.

[Armchair_Ace]

iPads & iPods first

Some people would run into a burning aircraft to save their precious iPods / Pads.

[JW411]

With reference to hats and hi-viz jackets:

A colleague of mine ended up going off the end of a Boston runway at night in a DC-10 through absolutely no fault of his own. It was winter and it was snowing so as he came out of the flightdeck having completed the shutdown checks, he quickly donned his overcoat on the way out because it was bloody cold.

He then tried to get involved in the post-evacuation procedures but no one paid him any attention.

At one point, he was chucked into the back of an ambulance whilst trying to protest that he was the captain of the aircraft and was not hurt in the slightest. The enthusiastic ambulance crew assumed that he had received a head injury and was therefore not in a logical state of mind.

The problem was that he did not have his rank bars on his overcoat nor was he wearing a hi-viz jacket so, in the dark, once he put that coat on, no one could recognise that he was the captain.

Perhaps BA have learned a good lesson that some of the unpromising hysterics on this website have yet to learn.

[Airbubba]

13 Checklists have memory items. Most of these have 1 or 2 lines
eg ABORTED ENGINE START
Fuel Control Switch ... Cutoff

Wow, that's still a lot more memory items than we use.

I think a lot of this recent minimalist stuff comes from Boeing, our evac checklist has no memory items for example. Still, you are certainly expected to know what to do.

Thanks.

[Mr Angry from Purley]

and you may find authorities will only accept originals

Sierra

In the UK they will let a UK citizen back in with the passport number (i know from experience)

Great to see the cockpit crew came out with their hats. I hope the Captain takes one more opportunity to fly but if not have a happy retirement

[stagger]

Originally Posted by llondel

In the enhanced picture in this comment is there a missing fan blade in the 3 o'clock position?

Edit: No it isn't, it's just a careful coincidence of shadow relative to the blade positioning. The Daily Mail version of the picture is much clearer.

Yes - trick of the light - you can just about count all 22.

[CaptainX]

With reference to the effect of wind, I strongly suggest you read this AAIB report;

https://assets.digital.cabinet-offic...988_G-BGJL.pdf

Section 2.6.1.2 Paragraph 4 explains the effect of a light crosswind on spreading an engine fire over and under the fuselage, exacerbating the problem. Turning the aircraft, if runway width permits for your type, should always be considered.

Susier, thank you for your input but I think you misunderstood me.

[fokkerjet]

NTSB Issues Update on the British Airways Engine Fire at Las Vegas
Sept. 10, 2015

As part of its ongoing investigation into Tuesday’s engine fire that occurred during takeoff of British Airways flight 2276, a Boeing 777, at McCarran International Airport (LAS), the NTSB today released the following investigative update.

NTSB investigators arrived on scene Wednesday morning local time to begin the on-scene investigation. The NTSB investigative team includes experts in powerplants, airplane systems, and fire. The following groups will be organized: powerplants, airworthiness (airplane structure, systems, and fire), flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder.

Parties to the NTSB investigation are the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), The Boeing Company, and GE Aviation. In accordance with the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) Annex 13, the UK Air Accidents Investigations Branch (AAIB), as the State of the Operator, has appointed an accredited representative to assist the investigation. The UK accredited representative has initially appointed British Airways and the UK Civil Aviation Authority as technical advisors.

The following are the initial factual findings:

• British Airways flight 2276, a Boeing 777-200ER, equipped with two GE90-85B engines, registration G-VIIO, was operating under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) Part 129 and was enroute to London - Gatwick Airport (LGW), Horley, England.

• There were 157 passengers, including 1 lap child, and 13 crew members on board. There were several minor injuries as a result of the evacuation (mostly abrasions).

• The flight data recorder, cockpit voice recorder and quick access recorder have arrived at the NTSB Vehicle Recorder Laboratory and are currently being downloaded.

• On Tuesday evening, the airplane was photographed and the runway debris documented by FAA and airport officials before airplane was towed to secluded area of the airport (in order to reopen the runway).

• Initial examination of the left engine revealed multiple breaches of the engine case in the area around the high pressure compressor.

• Examination of the material recovered from runway found several pieces of the high pressure compressor spool (approximately 7-8 inches in length).

• Initial examination of the airplane by NTSB revealed that the left engine and pylon, left fuselage structure and inboard left wing airplane were substantially damaged by the fire. This damage will be documented over the next several days.

The powerplants and airworthiness groups will continue documenting the airplane and engine over the next several days. It is anticipate that once the tooling is in place, the left engine will be removed and shipped to a facility to conduct a full teardown.

[Basil]

I'll risk extra second or three it takes to grab my jacket on the way out the door. I won't be obstructing anyone else in the process.

But, unless you are wearing your jacket, you will. Your CRIMINAL act could kill people.
The cabin crew have, with delegated authority from the Pilot in Command, told you that, in the event of an evacuation, you MUST take nothing with you.
Failure to comply is a breach of the Air Navigation Order and, therefore, a criminal offence.
I don't think some on here have much idea of the legal authority granted to the PiC. We don't throw it around but the CAA may choose to do so and you may go to jail.

[Ian W]

Originally Posted by Basil

But, unless you are wearing your jacket, you will. Your CRIMINAL act could kill people.
The cabin crew have, with delegated authority from the Pilot in Command, told you that, in the event of an evacuation, you MUST take nothing with you.
Failure to comply is a breach of the Air Navigation Order and, therefore, a criminal offence.
I don't think some on here have much idea of the legal authority granted to the PiC. We don't throw it around but the CAA may choose to do so and you may go to jail.

I realize that I fly as SLF only around 4 times a week, but none of the safety briefings I have received mention bags and accoutrements during an emergency evacuation. That includes jokey right on videos and bored flight attendants reading them out. It may be that some airlines are different - BA has a cartoon video with a throw away line saying "take nothing with you" is that a legal order from a flight attendant?

These threats of drawing and quartering pax who have taken their bags - or in this case jacket - with them are like photo speed traps. They do not prevent the loss of safety they are punitive after the fact. This might provide some satisfaction for the armchair critics but it does not, and will not solve the problem.

What is needed is a standard evacuation pouch/money belt that pax should have with them at all times for emergency evacuation, to contain documents and some small items. They should be told - before any emergency arises - that apart from what they are wearing the pouch is all they are allowed to take from the aircraft in an emergency.

[4468]

Airbubba

"Wow, that's still a lot more memory items than we use."

As far as I'm aware, in recent years BA have re-aligned themselves with the equipment manufacturer's methods of operating. 'Back to Boeing' and similarly for Airbus.

So if you have fewer memory drills, perhaps it's because you are deviating from the manufacturer's recommendations? (Or you aren't flying Airbus/Boeing?)

[pax britanica]

from what I have seen on TV about FA training the emergency evac drill is avery noisy process with FA screaming and shouting evacuate . do this do that. Seems entirely sensible to me as confused /scared pax will from human nature respond to loud authoritative commands when they are in a state of shock.

Since people in shock or panic do not act rationally you could have a death sentence for taking bags with you and some people would still do it . So on top of mandatory changes to stupid policies and marketing to incentivise taking big bags on board lets have the usually last regulators mandate no carry-ons above a certain size and NO charging for hold baggage except traditional excess charges.
Couple that to improved safety briefings to de emphasise ditching (sorry -landing on water ) and prioritise on land evacs and not taking baggage etc mirrored in safety card or seat back slogans. ND finally crew evac training where I think they are dead right to yell at pax to 'bully' them into acting and moving to just ad Take no bags Take no bags. And I bet you would get a massive improvement -and it costs largely nothing and avoids the idea of prosecuting people who can just claim that
1)I was frightened and panicked
2 ) No one told me not to-or I didn't hear them.

PB

[notsojumboanymore]

Memory items

Whip,
With respect, Emergency Evacuation is not a memory item on the B777 in BA.
Check your QRH Checklist Instructions. It is a reference checklist.

[infrequentflyer789]

Originally Posted by highflyer40

Where do you get anything about immigration? That article states they are "stranded" in a hotel. Some without even shoes... So guess immigration was quite good in this case. They let people with no passports into the city.

I may not have made it clear that I was referring to other incidents as wwll as this one. See for instance this post in this thread http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5...ml#post9110612

Note that this flight was outbound so immigration may have been less of an issue, but either way those pax aren't going anywhere until passports are returned or replaced, whilst those who took their bags could take another flight out immediately if they needed to.

[tlbrown350]

It surprises me that only 4 kts crosswind has that effect on the direction of fire. Still wondering if there is something like a fuelspray directing the flames at the hull.

Even light winds can be enough to direct fire on unobstructed/open airfields as past incidents have shown. It may not seem significant, but in a open environment it is.

[archae86]

HPC disintegration detected

from the NTSB investigative update as posted here by fokkerjet

...
• Initial examination of the left engine revealed multiple breaches of the engine case in the area around the high pressure compressor.

• Examination of the material recovered from runway found several pieces of the high pressure compressor spool (approximately 7-8 inches in length).
...

Here is a link to a detailed diagram of a GE90. The variant is the 115, so some details and proportions will differ from the accident flight. But nonprofessionals unfamiliar with basic turbofan structure designations may find it helpful.

http://lyle.smu.edu/propulsion/Pages.../turbofan2.jpe

As lomapaseo suggested above, I think the biggest outstanding question is how this failure resulted in the release of so much fuel.

[Locked door]

I'm not sure if it's been picked up on this thread or in the media, but that calm an authoritative voice on the radio is almost certainly not that of the captain.

There's a video floating around of the flight crew being ambushed by a news crew while climbing into a taxi. The SFO's accent seems familiar......

[mcloaked]

The latest NTSB initial findings are at:

http://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-relea...R20150910.aspx

It might be worth checking the NTSB website for further news as this is from the investigators themselves, and is not speculation.

[wiggy]

that calm an authoritative voice on the radio is almost certainly not that of the captain.

Who said what and when on the radio when depends on who was doing the take-off, and there was almost certainly more than one voice.

If done according to script:

The Non-handler (so that could have been either the captain or the co-pilot) should have done the "stopping" call ...
The co-pilot should have made the "mayday" call.
The captain should have made the call to ATC that they were evacuating

That said the captain can operate outside the SOPs if he/she feels fit and I think they did ***** well to get them all done (probably a sim check "exceed" just for that ), I'm not fussed who did what on the R/T to be honest.

[HeathrowAirport]

IIO is a 275tonne MTOW model, one of only four. Whilst it was a light load, LAS is high and hot - presumably the 38*C/39*C temperature at time of incident meant a take-off quite close if not at full thrust.