BA 777 on fire in Las Vegas
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Alexb757 - see also my post #354
Thanks Alexb757, your input is always really appreciated.
Also check my post #354 when you have a second. It is on page 18.
I have seen many times in serious "fire" incidents that cockpit-based info alone is rarely sufficient to assess the outside situation hence a 3rd pilot can make a huge difference as in this case. Each second saved to initiate an evacuation means saving lives.
A note on cameras and airplanes:
even the new buses and trains in London nowadays have multiple cameras installed to cover the entire cabin sections but also external areas, including double deck buses as an example, I still do not understand why Boeing and Airbus do not install multiple cameras pointing at fuselage, wings, engines, tyres, etc, cost is minimal compared to a few years ago. In case of warning/fault on any of the most critical aircraft parts the applicable camera could be quickly watched to see what is happening outside.
Also check my post #354 when you have a second. It is on page 18.
I have seen many times in serious "fire" incidents that cockpit-based info alone is rarely sufficient to assess the outside situation hence a 3rd pilot can make a huge difference as in this case. Each second saved to initiate an evacuation means saving lives.
A note on cameras and airplanes:
even the new buses and trains in London nowadays have multiple cameras installed to cover the entire cabin sections but also external areas, including double deck buses as an example, I still do not understand why Boeing and Airbus do not install multiple cameras pointing at fuselage, wings, engines, tyres, etc, cost is minimal compared to a few years ago. In case of warning/fault on any of the most critical aircraft parts the applicable camera could be quickly watched to see what is happening outside.
Last edited by ILS27LEFT; 9th Oct 2015 at 09:52. Reason: correction
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Thanks Alexb757, your input is always really appreciated.
Also check my post #354 when you have a second. It is on page 18.
I have seen many times in serious "fire" incidents that cockpit-based info alone is rarely sufficient to assess the outside situation hence a 3rd pilot can make a huge difference as in this case. Each second saved to initiate an evacuation means saving lives.
A note on cameras and airplanes:
even the new buses and trains in London nowadays have multiple cameras installed to cover the entire cabin sections but also external areas, including double deck buses as an example, I still do not understand why Boeing and Airbus do not install multiple cameras pointing at fuselage, wings, engines, tyres, etc, cost is minimal compared to a few years ago. In case of warning/fault on any of the most critical aircraft parts the applicable camera could be quickly watched to see what is happening outside.
Also check my post #354 when you have a second. It is on page 18.
I have seen many times in serious "fire" incidents that cockpit-based info alone is rarely sufficient to assess the outside situation hence a 3rd pilot can make a huge difference as in this case. Each second saved to initiate an evacuation means saving lives.
A note on cameras and airplanes:
even the new buses and trains in London nowadays have multiple cameras installed to cover the entire cabin sections but also external areas, including double deck buses as an example, I still do not understand why Boeing and Airbus do not install multiple cameras pointing at fuselage, wings, engines, tyres, etc, cost is minimal compared to a few years ago. In case of warning/fault on any of the most critical aircraft parts the applicable camera could be quickly watched to see what is happening outside.
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The A380 does have a number of external cameras which, on some airlines, are also available as part of the passenger entertainment package.
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Used the camera segment of the entertainment package on two Lufthansa flights in the last 6 weeks. The tail mounted camera gives an excellent view of the aircraft.
While external cameras are still in use, I don't think that live cockpit video feeds (also on AA191) survived long after that event.
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Thanks Alexb757, your input is always really appreciated.
Also check my post #354 when you have a second. It is on page 18.
I have seen many times in serious "fire" incidents that cockpit-based info alone is rarely sufficient to assess the outside situation hence a 3rd pilot can make a huge difference as in this case. Each second saved to initiate an evacuation means saving lives.
ILS27LEFT:
Thank you. I have re-read that post of yours from last month and couldn't agree more!
It was all a team effort that paid off. And yes, quite serious. KLAS has not seen an "alert 3" in a few decades.
Sidebar note: as a result of us (airport authority) responding to the real thing and the debrief, the Feds waived our mandated three-yearly disaster exercise which was already planned in another 4 weeks after the BA incident.....
Also check my post #354 when you have a second. It is on page 18.
I have seen many times in serious "fire" incidents that cockpit-based info alone is rarely sufficient to assess the outside situation hence a 3rd pilot can make a huge difference as in this case. Each second saved to initiate an evacuation means saving lives.
ILS27LEFT:
Thank you. I have re-read that post of yours from last month and couldn't agree more!
It was all a team effort that paid off. And yes, quite serious. KLAS has not seen an "alert 3" in a few decades.
Sidebar note: as a result of us (airport authority) responding to the real thing and the debrief, the Feds waived our mandated three-yearly disaster exercise which was already planned in another 4 weeks after the BA incident.....
Last edited by alexb757; 10th Oct 2015 at 00:45. Reason: quotation highlight
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Boeing presumably, as said pilot became BA B744 Technical Manager.
And a very good one as far as us ramp engineers in LHR T4 were concerned. He had a considerable background technical knowledge of the aircraft was always ready to help us out and was a great help during the first few years of 747-400 operation.
After this incident I understand he offered his resignation, which was not accepted by company.
And no hunterboy, it was not the Bionic Carrot.
And a very good one as far as us ramp engineers in LHR T4 were concerned. He had a considerable background technical knowledge of the aircraft was always ready to help us out and was a great help during the first few years of 747-400 operation.
After this incident I understand he offered his resignation, which was not accepted by company.
And no hunterboy, it was not the Bionic Carrot.
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Perhaps there will be a briefing this week from the Boeing users conference
being held in Seattle. Might be one or two things that we have not heard about yet that will open our eyes to the "what if this was me" scenario?
being held in Seattle. Might be one or two things that we have not heard about yet that will open our eyes to the "what if this was me" scenario?
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As it turns out the evacuation order was given prior to the right engine being shut down according to those close to the investigation.
As it turns out the crew did just what they had been trained for. The fire was out, the checklist was completed and then low and behold they were told they were on fire.
As it turns out the crew did just what they had been trained for. The fire was out, the checklist was completed and then low and behold they were told they were on fire.
Last edited by Spooky 2; 13th Oct 2015 at 14:32.
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Perhaps there will be a briefing this week from the Boeing users conference
being held in Seattle. Might be one or two things that we have not heard about yet that will open our eyes to the "what if this was me" scenario?
being held in Seattle. Might be one or two things that we have not heard about yet that will open our eyes to the "what if this was me" scenario?
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Sorry Overstress but I remain clueless as to where you're going with that thought. Never have been critical of the crew. I do suspect that there will be changes to the RTO so this kind of thing does not happen again. Thank God the RP was there to go back in the cabin at the Commanders direction to check on things.
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No problem
probably my writing without the brain fully engaged. It happens like that once and awhile.
My point was the crew did a perfect RTO then moved down to the ECL and did the engine fire shutdown at which time the "engine fire" was extinguished. They were in the process of starting the APU when the Commander asked the 3rd pilot to check on the cabin, which he did. To his surprise the there was fire outside the cabin so he returned to the flight decked and advised the two pilots that they had a serious fire condition. Then they ordered an evacuation....
As stated before the fire was from line fuel that had spilled on the ground when the 2 inch fuel line from the firewall to the engine was severed. Approximately 40+ gallons spilled on he ground and was ignited. There was another 80 gallons still in the pipe. The engine fire was out, but the fuel fire was the problem now. Being that the crew could not see this from the flight deck and as far as they were concerned their fire problem was over I think they acted like any of would have given the same circumstances up to that point. The evacuation may be a different story.
probably my writing without the brain fully engaged. It happens like that once and awhile.My point was the crew did a perfect RTO then moved down to the ECL and did the engine fire shutdown at which time the "engine fire" was extinguished. They were in the process of starting the APU when the Commander asked the 3rd pilot to check on the cabin, which he did. To his surprise the there was fire outside the cabin so he returned to the flight decked and advised the two pilots that they had a serious fire condition. Then they ordered an evacuation....
As stated before the fire was from line fuel that had spilled on the ground when the 2 inch fuel line from the firewall to the engine was severed. Approximately 40+ gallons spilled on he ground and was ignited. There was another 80 gallons still in the pipe. The engine fire was out, but the fuel fire was the problem now. Being that the crew could not see this from the flight deck and as far as they were concerned their fire problem was over I think they acted like any of would have given the same circumstances up to that point. The evacuation may be a different story.
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Very common theme in multiple incidents, year in year out, including this one: PIC and F/O cannot see what is happening externally behind the cockpit, leading to sub-optimal decision making.
On many aircraft even the passengers can see what is happening beneath/ ahead of the aircraft (and with their own eyes what is happening with wings/ engines) ... why shouldn't the pilots have a similar facility during an emergency? Why should they rely on second-hand reports from relief pilots or cabin crew?
Surely fixed cameras covering both wings (plus/minus beneath fuselage) would be useful in these circumstances? Cost: Unknown, but surely not completely prohibitive. Seems strange to me that pilots should have such massive instrumental knowledge about their aircraft, yet have such limited visual situational awareness. Even my SUV has better rearward visibility with an effective camera.
On many aircraft even the passengers can see what is happening beneath/ ahead of the aircraft (and with their own eyes what is happening with wings/ engines) ... why shouldn't the pilots have a similar facility during an emergency? Why should they rely on second-hand reports from relief pilots or cabin crew?
Surely fixed cameras covering both wings (plus/minus beneath fuselage) would be useful in these circumstances? Cost: Unknown, but surely not completely prohibitive. Seems strange to me that pilots should have such massive instrumental knowledge about their aircraft, yet have such limited visual situational awareness. Even my SUV has better rearward visibility with an effective camera.
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British Airways jet that caught fire before takeoff at McCarran to fly again | Las Vegas Review-Journal
Looks like they're not going to write it off.
Looks like they're not going to write it off.
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I heard a trailer yesterday evening for a Radio 4 programme with Chris Henkey describing his experiences of the event, to be broadcast over Christmas; I've looked but can't see it listed on the BBC website.
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doubtful to me they spend dozens of millions for a 16 year old ship. There are so many sections and structural elements affected. Insurance would pay anyway.
An unprecedented repair like this is likely to be pricier than buying one from the desert or 2nd hand.
An unprecedented repair like this is likely to be pricier than buying one from the desert or 2nd hand.