British Airways to cut workers' pay
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British Airways to cut workers' pay
from news.bbc.co.uk
British Airways is planning to cut the pay of 36,000 workers, as part of its efforts to reduce costs following the terrorist attacks in the US.
The airline is proposing to withdraw the annual extra one week's holiday pay, due to be paid next month, and to stop the annual increment next year.
Unions say they will oppose the cuts, when they meet management for talks later this week. BA says the proposals would save £37m.
The proposed pay cuts would affect 36,000 non-management staff based in the UK, including flight crew, cabin crew, engineers, administrative and ground staff.
Six hundred senior managers were told they faced a 10% pay cut last week.
The company's directors have agreed to reduce their own pay by 15%.
Thousands of middle managers have been warned their pay is also being reviewed.
Industry crisis
The reluctance of people to travel by air after last month's terrorist attacks has plunged the airline industry into crisis.
More than 100,000 jobs have been shed by airlines around the world as they attempt to cut back costs.
Since the attacks, BA has said it plans to cut 7,000 jobs and it has withdrawn and suspended a number of its regular services.
Last week the company said it had seen a 22% fall in total passenger traffic during September month, and that it expected further falls.
On Wednesday, the European Commission is expected to announce that it will allow some state aid for airlines struggling in current conditions.
The airline is proposing to withdraw the annual extra one week's holiday pay, due to be paid next month, and to stop the annual increment next year.
Unions say they will oppose the cuts, when they meet management for talks later this week. BA says the proposals would save £37m.
The proposed pay cuts would affect 36,000 non-management staff based in the UK, including flight crew, cabin crew, engineers, administrative and ground staff.
Six hundred senior managers were told they faced a 10% pay cut last week.
The company's directors have agreed to reduce their own pay by 15%.
Thousands of middle managers have been warned their pay is also being reviewed.
Industry crisis
The reluctance of people to travel by air after last month's terrorist attacks has plunged the airline industry into crisis.
More than 100,000 jobs have been shed by airlines around the world as they attempt to cut back costs.
Since the attacks, BA has said it plans to cut 7,000 jobs and it has withdrawn and suspended a number of its regular services.
Last week the company said it had seen a 22% fall in total passenger traffic during September month, and that it expected further falls.
On Wednesday, the European Commission is expected to announce that it will allow some state aid for airlines struggling in current conditions.
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It was only a matter of time before this nonsense emerged.
As someone else on these forums has said, where is BA's monster seat sale to get the cash flowing in?
I will vote against any such proposal whilst the company owns the freehold to Waterside.
Guvnor: try to stay out of this one, eh, there's a good chap? You'll only upset the professional pilots on the forum
As someone else on these forums has said, where is BA's monster seat sale to get the cash flowing in?
I will vote against any such proposal whilst the company owns the freehold to Waterside.
Guvnor: try to stay out of this one, eh, there's a good chap? You'll only upset the professional pilots on the forum
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2 things come to mind on this one.
a ) Exactly, where is the seat sale. Cashflow is king right now.
b ) Companies are putting a ban on all international travel. Not for saftey, but for economic reasons. I work for the 3rd biggest software company in the world and we have put such a ban in place. So have 2 of the big 5 i am told.
a ) Exactly, where is the seat sale. Cashflow is king right now.
b ) Companies are putting a ban on all international travel. Not for saftey, but for economic reasons. I work for the 3rd biggest software company in the world and we have put such a ban in place. So have 2 of the big 5 i am told.
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Overstress,
Whilst I understand your frustration at BA owning Waterside, do you not think that this proposal is "too little, too late ", rather similar to the proposed redundancies ?
T2
Whilst I understand your frustration at BA owning Waterside, do you not think that this proposal is "too little, too late ", rather similar to the proposed redundancies ?
T2
Haven't personally been in Waterworld, but other members of the family have.
A vastly wasted piece of space with waterfalls, feng shui consultant and other trivial cr*p!!! This is meant to be an airline not a fekkin amusement park (maybe that's in future plans... after the foot and mouth epidemic is definitely over we'll have tourist days at the office!)
Which *ssholes in BA approved such a disgusting waste of company money? Knock the bl**dy building down and flog it as real estate and stop stealing the hard earned salaries of the employees.
A vastly wasted piece of space with waterfalls, feng shui consultant and other trivial cr*p!!! This is meant to be an airline not a fekkin amusement park (maybe that's in future plans... after the foot and mouth epidemic is definitely over we'll have tourist days at the office!)
Which *ssholes in BA approved such a disgusting waste of company money? Knock the bl**dy building down and flog it as real estate and stop stealing the hard earned salaries of the employees.
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"Thousands of BA Middle Managers have been told their pay is under review". Therein lies the problem - those thousands of middle managers.
BA have just put IN extra managers to see them through their recovery - more leeches sucking the blood of the dying corpse.
Come on folks - look at easyJet and the like - lean mean and making money. Your own GO showed the way ahead until you sold it for short term gain.
I have family at BA and desperately want the company to ride this out - but it seems to be "full speed ahead and sod the icebergs" at the moment.
BA have just put IN extra managers to see them through their recovery - more leeches sucking the blood of the dying corpse.
Come on folks - look at easyJet and the like - lean mean and making money. Your own GO showed the way ahead until you sold it for short term gain.
I have family at BA and desperately want the company to ride this out - but it seems to be "full speed ahead and sod the icebergs" at the moment.
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Did you ever stop to consider that perhaps the good old sharp end workforce may have more than a little to do with the current crises in BA? With all the industrial relations baggage left over from being a nationalised operation still evident (NSPs for one) I am surprised BA makes any progress at all. Yes, I dare say that there has been a degree of management incompetence but there has also been more than a fair share of workforce intransigence.
As to easyJet and the like they are not successful because they have a smaller management population, they are successful despite it. You can't compare the no frills operators with the rest of us because the comparison is just not valid. If BA were to completely overhaul its route structure and concentrate only on those routes where it could make a healthy profit then you could offer a comparison but of course that would mean shedding staff (both management and sharp end) right, left and centre.
Rather than looking for someone to blame shouldn't we all share the responsibility and start working together?
As to easyJet and the like they are not successful because they have a smaller management population, they are successful despite it. You can't compare the no frills operators with the rest of us because the comparison is just not valid. If BA were to completely overhaul its route structure and concentrate only on those routes where it could make a healthy profit then you could offer a comparison but of course that would mean shedding staff (both management and sharp end) right, left and centre.
Rather than looking for someone to blame shouldn't we all share the responsibility and start working together?
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R308R
Do not bother sending anything to BALPA they are just a hopeless bunch of lazy beurocratic baffoons living on our money.
I have spent 4 weeks trying to get them to help me with a small problem, the first time i have had reason to contact them in some 8 years of membership [ which i am about to cancel ], and despite talking to neumerous so called "officers" none of them have done ANYTHING for me and worst of all nobody returns your calls, not even Chris Darkes PA!
[ 10 October 2001: Message edited by: flaps8 ]
Do not bother sending anything to BALPA they are just a hopeless bunch of lazy beurocratic baffoons living on our money.
I have spent 4 weeks trying to get them to help me with a small problem, the first time i have had reason to contact them in some 8 years of membership [ which i am about to cancel ], and despite talking to neumerous so called "officers" none of them have done ANYTHING for me and worst of all nobody returns your calls, not even Chris Darkes PA!
[ 10 October 2001: Message edited by: flaps8 ]
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So let me get this right....36000 non-management employees. That leaves what, let's say another 24000 or so MANAGEMENT employees if BA employees around 60000 people. So there would appear to be a manager for every 1.5 employees. Have I got this wrong or does that seem to tell the story of BA's probable demise rather clearly?
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shutit down and re-start with a management that knows how to manage and a workforce that doesn't think the industry owes them a living.
ONLY THEN WILL IT WORK..The last 40 years of baggage needs throwing overboard.
ONLY THEN WILL IT WORK..The last 40 years of baggage needs throwing overboard.
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Warthog - well said, the sound of a nail being hit on the head but it may be drowned out here.
Diesel - careful how you read the BBC quote - there are many thousands of non managerial staff to which the cuts do not apply hence you can not make the assumptions you have.
Diesel - careful how you read the BBC quote - there are many thousands of non managerial staff to which the cuts do not apply hence you can not make the assumptions you have.
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I am an outsider who has spent all of his life in the shadow of LHR, and who has many friends in the Company.
Nearly all of the most senior people were hired by a nationalised business with an entirely different culture from that prevailing now. As these people retire, the airline's culture will become more realistic. Let us hope that it happens in time to save the airline.
Nearly all of the most senior people were hired by a nationalised business with an entirely different culture from that prevailing now. As these people retire, the airline's culture will become more realistic. Let us hope that it happens in time to save the airline.
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Agree with sentiments made about BA management - way too top heavy - Would you believe there is even a manager at Waterworld for --wait for it-- Bread Rolls Europe !!! What Next??
I too desperately want to see things work at BA too.Maybe someone could drop John Harvey Nash off @ WWorld and do a quick ICI job on the place.
It's true too, the lo-cost operators can't compare their product in the slightest sense with BA's, and I am the last person to be elitist-I would probably fly FR/Easyjet if they went where i wanted to go, - but We've already had a barrage of self-conceited vitriol (again) from O'Leary on various news networks today. Does this guy do this to save on advertising or what??!! :o
I too desperately want to see things work at BA too.Maybe someone could drop John Harvey Nash off @ WWorld and do a quick ICI job on the place.
It's true too, the lo-cost operators can't compare their product in the slightest sense with BA's, and I am the last person to be elitist-I would probably fly FR/Easyjet if they went where i wanted to go, - but We've already had a barrage of self-conceited vitriol (again) from O'Leary on various news networks today. Does this guy do this to save on advertising or what??!! :o
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Wot about a "first class chocolate buyer" or the "manager" on board about 3 months ago who was trying to work out if business class passangers liked their danish pastries hot or cold!! Just 2 examples of £50,000+ wasted in pay, pension, healthcare, and NI 
The one weeks pay , yeah company can have it,....... on condition they sack another 3000 so called managers
The one weeks pay , yeah company can have it,....... on condition they sack another 3000 so called managers
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WELL SAID WARTHOG !!!
All those that feel that BA owes them a very healthy living, and feel very strong about possible pay cuts, then vote with your feet!! PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!
Allow those that want to fight for the company, and are prepared to give a little until better times, take over.
I wonder how many with a Low Sen No (ie <1500, and with total job security) are prepared to tighten the belt?? Sorry if I have done someone a dis-service with my last remark.
This is a time for consolidation, negotiation and compromise, not UNION RHETORIC!! and I am a BALPA supporter.
All those that feel that BA owes them a very healthy living, and feel very strong about possible pay cuts, then vote with your feet!! PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!
Allow those that want to fight for the company, and are prepared to give a little until better times, take over.
I wonder how many with a Low Sen No (ie <1500, and with total job security) are prepared to tighten the belt?? Sorry if I have done someone a dis-service with my last remark.
This is a time for consolidation, negotiation and compromise, not UNION RHETORIC!! and I am a BALPA supporter.
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I don't mind personally making cut backs and changes to make it possible for BA to make it through this rough patch but I'll be dead honest I don't want to see BA riding rough shod over their staff because people are too afraid for their jobs.
If they are reviewing their middle management situation how come it is taking them a lot longer to review than it did how many flight deck, cabin crew and routes they needed in the immediate future.
One man to say where the ships going, the rest of you grab an oar each.
If they are reviewing their middle management situation how come it is taking them a lot longer to review than it did how many flight deck, cabin crew and routes they needed in the immediate future.
One man to say where the ships going, the rest of you grab an oar each.
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I think the key points made so far are that Leadership and Teamwork are the way forward. Restrictive practices and negative attitudes will do no good in the long term.
Either we make a step-change to become a modern, commercially driven company or we will be swept aside by fierce competition. This is a great opportunity to secure the future careers of many people employed by BA - are we up to the challenge?
Either we make a step-change to become a modern, commercially driven company or we will be swept aside by fierce competition. This is a great opportunity to secure the future careers of many people employed by BA - are we up to the challenge?
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Give a little? They're asking for 15% from me! Incidentally, should a senior manager volunteer to give up 10% of his salary for 6 months I'll still be paying the company £800 more than him even though he earns three times what I do!
I dont think that BA owes me a living, but I demand that they address the real issues that affect this companys future. Stealing the pay of those who can least afford (and make no mistake, under this arrangement those who can most afford it will pay very little) is not going to resolve this crisis. We are grossly overstaffed. Nobody can deny this. Our overheads are outrageous. Nobody can deny this. Our managers treat their staff with disdain, and in many cases contempt. They are less interested in saving the company than saving themselves. Whilst this attitude prevails there is little hope for BA. Somebody must cut out the dead wood, but all we see are managers tinkering round the edges or burying their heads in the Waterside sand.
Incidentally, BA has over 50000 UK staff of whom 600 are senior managers and 36000 are 'non-management staff'. That leaves about 13400 junior managers. Thats over 1 manager for every 3 other staff, or over 50 managers per aircraft.
[ 10 October 2001: Message edited by: Carnage Matey! ]
I dont think that BA owes me a living, but I demand that they address the real issues that affect this companys future. Stealing the pay of those who can least afford (and make no mistake, under this arrangement those who can most afford it will pay very little) is not going to resolve this crisis. We are grossly overstaffed. Nobody can deny this. Our overheads are outrageous. Nobody can deny this. Our managers treat their staff with disdain, and in many cases contempt. They are less interested in saving the company than saving themselves. Whilst this attitude prevails there is little hope for BA. Somebody must cut out the dead wood, but all we see are managers tinkering round the edges or burying their heads in the Waterside sand.
Incidentally, BA has over 50000 UK staff of whom 600 are senior managers and 36000 are 'non-management staff'. That leaves about 13400 junior managers. Thats over 1 manager for every 3 other staff, or over 50 managers per aircraft.
[ 10 October 2001: Message edited by: Carnage Matey! ]
We've already given them 30% by working for that much less than everyone else.
I'm not prepared to prop up the inadequacies of a self centered and incompetetent management by giving up more.
If the government or EU wants to subsidise BA managements' shortcomings, so be it, but don't ask the front line staff to do it.
Incidentally, the sought after savings of £37 million are not even going to make a scratch on the £6,700 million debt, but they will be sorely fealt by those making them.
I'm not prepared to prop up the inadequacies of a self centered and incompetetent management by giving up more.
If the government or EU wants to subsidise BA managements' shortcomings, so be it, but don't ask the front line staff to do it.
Incidentally, the sought after savings of £37 million are not even going to make a scratch on the £6,700 million debt, but they will be sorely fealt by those making them.