Flaperon washes up on Reunion Island
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Near St Lawrence River
Age: 53
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's incredible that a large object, as flaperon, was lying at shore unnoticed, for several months, perhaps a year (by age of barnacles). A local resident said that he saw a seat and he burnt couple of suitcases, who knows how many other potential objects awaiting around those islands. IMO, now doesn't matter where the aircraft went down, the Indian Ocean is huge, but the ocean currents and winds converge towards Madagascar. Seriously, we should start searching intensively all shores around, from South Africa to Maldives and very important: offer a nice reward to a local resident that brings a potential MH370 debris, then start to re-build the puzzle, from the tail to the head.
Do you believe that the known flight path (turnaround at IGARI, flight over the Malasian penninsula while skirting the Thai border, the turn towards VAMPI with the 330+ nm flight up the Malacca Strait, the turn towards Banda Achi, and then the turn at POVUS (all the while staying out of the Indonesian FIS) which brought the flight to a heading of almost 180 degrees) could have occurred as a result of anything other than human choice? If so, you are going against the consensus of opinion on the matter; thus, you really should explain your belief in detail.
The credibility of this flight path, which conveniently skirts everyone's airspace until the path is clear is not established.
Various military and government sources have claimed radar detections that have been combined to put this track together, but there has been no independent review that all could reference. The plane is basically anywhere from the last 'Good night' till the first Intelsat fix.
The credibility of this flight path, which conveniently skirts everyone's airspace until the path is clear is not established.
Various military and government sources have claimed radar detections that have been combined to put this track together, but there has been no independent review that all could reference. The plane is basically anywhere from the last 'Good night' till the first Intelsat fix.
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: In an ever changing place
Posts: 1,039
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Phoenix
It's incredible that a large object, as flaperon, was lying at shore unnoticed, for several months, perhaps a year (by age of barnacles). A local resident said that he saw a seat and he burnt couple of suitcases, who knows how many other potential objects awaiting around those islands.
It's incredible that a large object, as flaperon, was lying at shore unnoticed, for several months, perhaps a year (by age of barnacles). A local resident said that he saw a seat and he burnt couple of suitcases, who knows how many other potential objects awaiting around those islands.
To be honest we get all sorts of ****e washing up on the beach where I live and 99.99999% of the time we just walk right by it.
Pontius that's why the people(especially professional beachcombers) should be personally informed with letters or SMS messages or somehow else.
I think this guy is sincere and I don't accuse him one bit, he was just doing his job.
I think this guy is sincere and I don't accuse him one bit, he was just doing his job.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dublin
Posts: 987
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I burnt them,” he said, pointing to the pile of ashes lying...
Collecting debris from the Air India disaster off SW Ireland, I came across an old man who tried to burn seat cushions in his fireplace!
A person who finds aircraft debris has to recognise what he / she has found, and the importance of the find.
If this piece does turn out to be from MH then the discovery is very fortuitous.
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: N. California
Age: 80
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@Etudiant
The various sources all support each other and fit like a hand in a glove. No independent review is necessary to see the obvious.
The route reported by the Malaysian Military showed 9MMRO proceeding from the area of Penang towards waypoint MEKAR when it disappeared abruptly at 1822:12 UTC. (We can attribute the abrupt disappearance to 9MMRO reaching the range limit of the Pulu Pinang Radar.)
Calculations of probable airspeeds and distance traveled correlate with graphic images provided by the Malaysians and give a Malaysian radar based position for the plane as about ten miles west of MEKAR at the 18:22 time.
Three minutes later, 9MMRO initiated login to the Inmarsat system. Thus at 18:29 at a point just west of MEKAR, BTO and BFO data were recorded which provided a "ping ring." This 18:29 ping ring lies across a point about 48 miles west of the 18:22 position given by Malaysian radar (ten miles west of MEKAR.)
48nm at about 500kts for 6 and a half minutes puts the radar data and the sat data within one minute of being dead on.
So there is an anchoring time and place which couples with a Sat data position ring to the position shown by Malaysian radar ( 6°14'17.39"N 95°40'14.48"E at 18:28.)
From this anchor point , if we assume a groundspeed of about 500kts. A 104kt leg is needed to get to a point which provides a great circle course to all the predicted tracks on the southern leg. POVUS provides that point and a course to POVUS from there would skirt Indonesian airspace.
So both sat and radar data supports the fact that9MMRO was at POVUS at approximately 2:34 local time (18:34z.)
Further supporting this data is the correlating fact that the first BFO reading (88) which indicated a southerly heading came at 18:39:55.354, approximately four minutes after POVUS (this exchange was created by an attempted sat telephone call at 18:39:55.354.)
Now we have a piece of 9MMRO turning up at Reunion.
The "independent review" has taken place right here. All the facts line up.
You have no more argument against the known flight path.
Various military and government sources have claimed radar detections that have been combined to put this track together, but there has been no independent review that all could reference.
The route reported by the Malaysian Military showed 9MMRO proceeding from the area of Penang towards waypoint MEKAR when it disappeared abruptly at 1822:12 UTC. (We can attribute the abrupt disappearance to 9MMRO reaching the range limit of the Pulu Pinang Radar.)
Calculations of probable airspeeds and distance traveled correlate with graphic images provided by the Malaysians and give a Malaysian radar based position for the plane as about ten miles west of MEKAR at the 18:22 time.
Three minutes later, 9MMRO initiated login to the Inmarsat system. Thus at 18:29 at a point just west of MEKAR, BTO and BFO data were recorded which provided a "ping ring." This 18:29 ping ring lies across a point about 48 miles west of the 18:22 position given by Malaysian radar (ten miles west of MEKAR.)
48nm at about 500kts for 6 and a half minutes puts the radar data and the sat data within one minute of being dead on.
So there is an anchoring time and place which couples with a Sat data position ring to the position shown by Malaysian radar ( 6°14'17.39"N 95°40'14.48"E at 18:28.)
From this anchor point , if we assume a groundspeed of about 500kts. A 104kt leg is needed to get to a point which provides a great circle course to all the predicted tracks on the southern leg. POVUS provides that point and a course to POVUS from there would skirt Indonesian airspace.
So both sat and radar data supports the fact that9MMRO was at POVUS at approximately 2:34 local time (18:34z.)
Further supporting this data is the correlating fact that the first BFO reading (88) which indicated a southerly heading came at 18:39:55.354, approximately four minutes after POVUS (this exchange was created by an attempted sat telephone call at 18:39:55.354.)
Now we have a piece of 9MMRO turning up at Reunion.
The "independent review" has taken place right here. All the facts line up.
You have no more argument against the known flight path.
Marine plastics tracking
Adrift: tracking the global ocean circulation
could be useful for defining location of origin?
Adrift: tracking the global ocean circulation
could be useful for defining location of origin?
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Santa Rosa, CA, USA
Age: 71
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nice summary, Propduffer. The world would be a much better place if everyone looked at the facts- ALL THE FACTS- before forming an opinion. If you can't be bothered to acquaint yourself with the facts, or don't want to because it will clash with your preconceived notions, you are part of the problem. Good thing Occam's Razor is just a metaphor, otherwise these threads would be a bloodbath. I'm looking forward to the analysis of the flaperon by scientists and engineers. As usual, they will wow us with their findings, which will be logical and factual. Swissair Flight 111, TWA Flight 800, these guys are GOOD. We will know if it is from MH370 (Occam's Razor says it is), we will know it floated to that beach (O R says it did) and we will know a lot about how it was ripped from the wing. Maybe some genius will section a barnacle, analyze the isotopes, and plot the water temperature as the barnacle grew, narrowing the range along the 7th arc. Let's hope so.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Perth - Western Australia
Age: 75
Posts: 1,805
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mr Ferriers story is enough to make one weep. Very early on in the search phase, I said that a reward should be offered to anyone finding aircraft or possible aircraft debris - and that the offer should be advertised far and wide amongst coastal people in all the islands bordering the Indian Ocean.
Word of mouth and small flyer advertising in markets would have been enough, with some idea of what to look for, included in the flyer.
That reward offer need not be a vast amount - a $1000 or $5000 would be minimal in search term costs - where now, somewhere around AUD$80M has been spent. That relatively small amount would be a really attractive win for people who largely live subsistence lives.
Fishermen would have been the frontline people to make the offer to - and it's entirely possible a subsistence fisherman actually caught an important piece of wreckage and discarded it, or sighted it and ignored it.
I fail to understand why the search authorities apparently failed to even consider the reward system to coastal dwellers - apart from the fact that it fell into the "too-hard" basket - or that they were concerned that they would be overwhelmed with subsistence dwellers hopefully offering up every piece of flotsam found.
After seeing the dreadful amount of flotsam and jetsam on the Cocos-Keeling Islands (mostly reported coming from Indonesia), I could understand the authorities concerns in that point.
Word of mouth and small flyer advertising in markets would have been enough, with some idea of what to look for, included in the flyer.
That reward offer need not be a vast amount - a $1000 or $5000 would be minimal in search term costs - where now, somewhere around AUD$80M has been spent. That relatively small amount would be a really attractive win for people who largely live subsistence lives.
Fishermen would have been the frontline people to make the offer to - and it's entirely possible a subsistence fisherman actually caught an important piece of wreckage and discarded it, or sighted it and ignored it.
I fail to understand why the search authorities apparently failed to even consider the reward system to coastal dwellers - apart from the fact that it fell into the "too-hard" basket - or that they were concerned that they would be overwhelmed with subsistence dwellers hopefully offering up every piece of flotsam found.
After seeing the dreadful amount of flotsam and jetsam on the Cocos-Keeling Islands (mostly reported coming from Indonesia), I could understand the authorities concerns in that point.
Propduffer
Thank you for a clear summary.
I have no argument with the Inmarsat fixes, just with the doglegs in the flight path from the time radio contact was lost.
Those seem not well established to me, even given the Mekar radar fix.
Thank you for a clear summary.
I have no argument with the Inmarsat fixes, just with the doglegs in the flight path from the time radio contact was lost.
Those seem not well established to me, even given the Mekar radar fix.
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: N. California
Age: 80
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
etudiant
Yes it's true that the flight path over the Malaysian Peninsula is still unknowable in spite of the fact that the Malaysian Military tracked the flight - probably beginning even before the turnaround at IGARI - and recorded the flight path all the way across the peninsula and NW out past MEKAR until it went out of range of the radar at Pulu Penang.
In the first few days after the disappearance, there were leaks from the military postulating an altitude excursion about the time of the turnaround; all such leaks came to an abrupt halt on March 11th, the same day that General Daud, Chief of Royal Malaysian Air Force made his infamous statement beginning: "I wish to state that I did not make any such statements as above." So we were left with an indication that Malaysian radar captured the whole flight and this has been supported by several information releases from Malaysia, particularly the Interim Report. But they have refused to release the details of the flight over the peninsula so much fruitless speculation has occurred about this part of the flight.
It makes it hard to estimate where the plane might have run out of fuel unless we know how much was used up in this part of the flight.
But until the Malaysians are more forthcoming, this will have to remain a blank.
Yes it's true that the flight path over the Malaysian Peninsula is still unknowable in spite of the fact that the Malaysian Military tracked the flight - probably beginning even before the turnaround at IGARI - and recorded the flight path all the way across the peninsula and NW out past MEKAR until it went out of range of the radar at Pulu Penang.
In the first few days after the disappearance, there were leaks from the military postulating an altitude excursion about the time of the turnaround; all such leaks came to an abrupt halt on March 11th, the same day that General Daud, Chief of Royal Malaysian Air Force made his infamous statement beginning: "I wish to state that I did not make any such statements as above." So we were left with an indication that Malaysian radar captured the whole flight and this has been supported by several information releases from Malaysia, particularly the Interim Report. But they have refused to release the details of the flight over the peninsula so much fruitless speculation has occurred about this part of the flight.
It makes it hard to estimate where the plane might have run out of fuel unless we know how much was used up in this part of the flight.
But until the Malaysians are more forthcoming, this will have to remain a blank.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: NZ
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sky News are reporting an aircraft door has been located on Reunion. No real details at this stage however.
Plane Door Found On Reunion - Sky Sources
Edit: Further wreckage reportedly found
https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/sta...46619757330432
Plane Door Found On Reunion - Sky Sources
Edit: Further wreckage reportedly found
https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/sta...46619757330432
Last edited by tiger9999187; 2nd Aug 2015 at 07:46.
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 131.383E 12.833S
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mauritius is surrounded by a reef. Any debris drifting in on the east coast would be subject to heavy seas and surf for most of the year. The chances of it being broken up completely are great. Reunion does not have a surrounding reef and any debris can wash straight ashore.
If a door has been recovered then that should provide a lot of useful information about the impact. I'm assuming that it would be apparent if there had been any fire or explosives residue, whether it had been sheared off or even potentially opened....
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Are Out, on communications, the beach comber is reported to have said he didn't read papers or listen to the radio. As for telling everyone along the shore to be on the look out, they are thousands of miles away from an incident that was unconnected with their daily lives.
Ask any man in the street what aircraft have crashed in the sea or been shot down recently. I would guess you would get more blank looks. Ask the same question in KL and more would know.
Ask any man in the street what aircraft have crashed in the sea or been shot down recently. I would guess you would get more blank looks. Ask the same question in KL and more would know.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SUSSEX UK
Age: 76
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Debris would have passed through shipping lane
Given that debris would have passed through a busy shipping lane, lets hope that a navigation warning or directive has now gone out to vessels transiting the area to keep a look out for other objects.
Lower diagram: INDIAN OCEAN MARINE TRAFFIC | Marine Vessel Traffic
FMX - Global traffic overview with satellite AIS | Blog on Fleetmon.com
Lower diagram: INDIAN OCEAN MARINE TRAFFIC | Marine Vessel Traffic
FMX - Global traffic overview with satellite AIS | Blog on Fleetmon.com
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: In an ever changing place
Posts: 1,039
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SLFguy
Yep, gunna come across a flaperon and just go "Meh, see this every day".. Jesus, really??
Yep, gunna come across a flaperon and just go "Meh, see this every day".. Jesus, really??
Chances are he is a local fisherman, maybe with not a great deal of contact with life outside of the island where he lives or even cares what happens in the rest of the world so probably hadn't even heard of MH370.