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Flaperon washes up on Reunion Island

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Flaperon washes up on Reunion Island

Old 12th Aug 2015, 12:08
  #481 (permalink)  
 
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While on the sea bed..... Sonar images from deep in the Indian Ocean led Australian search team to believe they have found the wreckage of Malaysia Airlines MH370 - but they can't get there until NOVEMBER because of bad weather | Daily Mail Online


Surely the recent washed up finds prove that what's in these images could be pretty much anything.
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Old 12th Aug 2015, 13:25
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These are not "New" images and it is Class 1 objects, not Class 3 that are of most interest.

From ATSB MH370: Sonar Contacts Fact Sheet - 29 July 2015:

There are three classifications for sonar contacts which are identified during the course of the underwater search.


Classification 3 is assigned to sonar contacts that are of some interest as they stand out from their surroundings but have low probability of being significant to the search. The underwater search so far has identified more than 400 seabed features that have been classified as category 3.
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Old 12th Aug 2015, 14:07
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Two roughly cuboid objects of similar size. Sure don't look like bits of fuselage. They also look too square for shipping containers.

However it is hard to interpret these images without knowing a bit more about the acquisition. Remember they are sonar images - not visual images.

There are a number of different processing techniques that can be used to improve images.

The shadows (dark areas to the right of the objects) are beside rather than behind the objects. This suggests some form of bistatic system (i.e. separate transmitter and receiver). The transmitter is off to the left while the receiver appears almost above.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bistat...dectection.png

Note also the two shadows differ slightly in orientation, but there are a number of possible explanations for this.

One thing is sure. If they are lightweight aircraft containers, there is not a lot of fragmentation or deformation present.
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Old 12th Aug 2015, 18:34
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Could the smaller aerofoil section be a piece of helicopter rotor? Naval, judging by it's colour?
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Old 12th Aug 2015, 20:01
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JACC: flaperon "in all probability" came from MH370

KUALA LUMPUR: Finally, the Australian Joint Agency Coordination Centre (JACC) has confirmed that the flaperon found on Reunion Island is from Malaysia Airlines (MAS) flight MH370.

"Subsequent examination has indicated that in all probability, the wreckage, a wing part known as a flaperon, was from MH370," said JACC in a statement on Wednesday.
JACC confirms flaperon is from MH370 - Nation | The Star Online
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Old 12th Aug 2015, 20:18
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Hi,

KUALA LUMPUR: Finally, the Australian Joint Agency Coordination Centre (JACC) has confirmed that the flaperon found on Reunion Island is from Malaysia Airlines (MAS) flight MH370.
Only the french authorities can confirm this
It's no yet confirmation from them so far !
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Old 12th Aug 2015, 20:52
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Not necessarily, French may never confirm nor deny it, if they are looking for serial numbers, etc. and there are none then what remains is just a conjecture or best guess. Actually Australians stated very carefully "in all probability this flapperon .... ", they may never be any 100% positive proof. Unless you believe that someone on purpose put this piece there on the beach 99.99% is good enough and this is exactly what Australians (and Malaysian PM) are saying.
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Old 13th Aug 2015, 02:57
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A direct link to the JACC media release is here

MH370 Operational Search Update?<br>12 August 2015
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Old 13th Aug 2015, 04:37
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The engines?

Which is the likelihood to have two identical objects on the Indian Ocean seabed next to each other? How about the shape, the same orientation and the two colors for two types of materials (fan+compressor vs turbine+nozzle)?

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Old 13th Aug 2015, 05:47
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I think your'e onto something! Didn't even notice that darker solid until you pointed it out there,thought they were just shadows.

Last edited by Raptor Systems TT; 13th Aug 2015 at 21:50.
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Old 13th Aug 2015, 05:54
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Which is the likelihood to have two identical objects on the Indian Ocean seabed next to each other?

As most of such debris would be stuff accidentally or intentionally dumped from ships, the likelihood is pretty high.
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Old 13th Aug 2015, 09:28
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MH370: Malaysia publishes new theory

Malaysia's government newsagency has published a new theory suggesting Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 glided downwards and landed with soft impact on the southern Indian Ocean.

The report raises the possibility that one or more of the 239 people on board were still alive when the Boeing 777 ditched into the ocean after flying for more than seven hours off course......................
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Old 13th Aug 2015, 09:55
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ATSB Chief Commisioner Martin Dolan said images published by the Daily Mail overnight were several months old and were classified ‘Category Three’ — or highly unlikely to be associated with an aircraft debris field.

“The underwater search so far has identified more than 400 seabed features that have been classified as category three,” Mr Dolan said. “It’s all been eliminated.”

He said there were no plans to return to those sites for a “closer look” in November when conditions improved.

Only two items had been classified as category one — or likely to be associated with an aircraft debris field — and they had been ruled out after further investigation found they were part of an uncharted shipwreck.

Fugro Discovery arrived back at the search site yesterday to resume work scouring the ocean floor.

So far just over half the 120,000 square kilometre priority search zone has been scanned — or an area the size of Tasmania.

MH370 intact: Plane did not break apart, according to reports
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Old 13th Aug 2015, 10:43
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The guy may well be a satcoms expert, but he's operating way outside his comfort zone if he thinks that makes him an accident investigator or an oceanographer:

"If MH370 had crashed with a really hard impact, we would have seen small pieces of debris floating on the sea immediately after that. Furthermore, the flaperon that was recovered (from Reunion Island) wouldn’t have been in one piece…we would have only seen bits and pieces of it"

"One cannot underestimate the power of the ocean current…recently, a Russian woman who was considered one of the greatest free divers of all time failed to surface after a dive in the Mediterranean and she is feared to have encountered a strong underwater current"

MH370 sank almost in one piece, expert claims | Free Malaysia Today
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Old 13th Aug 2015, 12:56
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"The report raises the possibility that one or more of the 239 people on board were still alive when the Boeing 777 ditched into the ocean after flying for more than seven hours off course......................
weebobby is offline"

In that case, why no rafts and ELTs?
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Old 13th Aug 2015, 13:08
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Indeed. It would seem that Lindsay Murdoch from The Sydney Morning Herald has forgotten that this theory would only raise the chances of survival if a reduction in altitude to breathable air occurred.


I'd like to see him try and hop into a raft after being hypoxic for 7 hours.....
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Old 13th Aug 2015, 15:36
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Originally Posted by Aluminium shuffler View Post
"The report raises the possibility that one or more of the 239 people on board were still alive when the Boeing 777 ditched into the ocean after flying for more than seven hours off course......................
weebobby is offline"

In that case, why no rafts and ELTs?
It only takes one person to 'ditch' a 777 - perhaps someone who had been doing regular practice at landings at sea level in the Indian Ocean on his home 777 sim?

If that one person wanted to 'go down with the ship' there would be no life rafts etc.

ELTs have a close on 100% failure record which the industry seems to have willingly accepted.
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Old 13th Aug 2015, 16:59
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"someone who had been doing regular practice at landings at sea level in the Indian Ocean on his home 777 sim? "

What is the difference between landings at sea level in the Indian Ocean and landings anywhere else? Landing with both engines flamed out may make difference. Did he practice those?
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Old 13th Aug 2015, 17:34
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ELTs have a close on 100% failure record which the industry seems to have willingly accepted
ELTs were never designed nor expected to work underwater. That's what ULBs are for.

In any case, there was a major study a few years ago that found ELT had a 75% activation success rate (not submerged).

And per SAR data the average search time for GPS equipped ELTs was something like 2 hours.
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Old 13th Aug 2015, 17:38
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Originally Posted by Gysbreght View Post
"someone who had been doing regular practice at landings at sea level in the Indian Ocean on his home 777 sim? "

What is the difference between landings at sea level in the Indian Ocean and landings anywhere else? Landing with both engines flamed out may make difference. Did he practice those?
What would truly amaze me is if a qualified pilot tooling around on a simulator in his spare time didn't try unusual things that he'd never dare try for real, rather than just reproducing what he did in the day job.
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