Lufthansa: random medication tests for pilots

[gcal]

I've not seen a situation yet, a recent situation, in which the company I know best did not do what it could to help; under the rules and regs in the UK.
It may have been constrained by the rules and regs and some of the wording of these can frighten an employee I grant that.
Teamwork is needed by the company and the employee.
A company cannot be deliberately dishonest and neither should the employee.

[Herod]

I believe that in some countries certain medications (e.g. antidepressants) are considered on a case-by-case basis. The rationale is that it's better to have the pilot on meds that keep him performing satisfactorily, rather than either taking the meds surreptitiously or having a breakdown. I've had the breakdown and, last time I checked, the meds which keep me happy and functioning prohibit even holding a PPL (although I can hold an NPPL; go figure)

[Airbubba]

I remember the days when all you had to do was call the chief pilot and say: I need time off to deal with my wife's problem . Chief pilot would say: FINE, call me when you are ready to fly again, we will keep sending you your pay, we want you to be well.

Those days are long gone at many carriers I'm afraid. And, I would say that some of the deterioration in benefits is due to colleagues who have faked illnesses and milked the system at the expense of those of us who choose to be honest.

Who can blame the company for checking up on you after some clown brags on the union forum about calling in sick for a trip he doesn't like and quips that 'you're one phone call away from a perfect line!'

[bellaolive912]

I am a UK ATPL who currently takes daily SSRI Medication; I fly for a small/medium sized UK based operator with the full knowledge of my Flt.Ops/HR Dept, local AME and CAA AeMC at LGW. I attend a relaxed, informal consultation at LGW every 6 months to update my condition. My only restriction is an OML, Multi-Crew Operations only.

My Employer, once I informed them of the issue, allowed me several months to recover and I cannot speak highly enough of positive effects of anti-depressant medication in my particular case. Yes, there were some sticky moments during my time off - I cannot deny.

HONESTY is the best policy for all concerned - to talk of being fired on the spot by HR is simply unfounded, scare-mongering and at best encouraging people to hide their issues even more

[gcal]

Which is exactly what I was saying.
You were treated as you should have been and scaremongering and 'stirring it up' are not warranted.
Good luck to you.

[Herod]

bellaolive912. Glad to hear it. Things have obviously moved on since my problem ten years ago. I might even try for the PPL again.

[bellaolive912]

Herod - wef 1st September 2012, UK CAA began to accept SSRIs as an acceptable medication under EASA regulations.

There is a Depression flowchart to follow on CAA website which offers full guidance.

It is worth noting that an employee can be dismissed on ill-health grounds, even if they hold a valid sickness certificate from a Doctor. This would be done on Capability grounds at a formal meeting with HR, Union Rep. etc.

Unlikely to be mentioned whilst employee was still receiving Company Sickness Benefit, unless they had specifically requested a severance package on grounds of ill-health.

[ATC Watcher]

Some facts : Lufhansa medical centre is one of the best in Germany.
They did not see that one coming, or if they did , someone or current rules make them keep quiet.
Lufthansa management decided that it has to be showing the public they are doing something .
Unfortunately they choose the wrong approach, as this could/will prevent people from going to see a doctor or taking medication when in need..

This was discussed in MAD during the last IFALPA Conference , and a solution proposed was a combination of the Peer system (PIP ) and of a proper loss of licence insurance , also covering mental illnesses. ( most don't).

I will argue that this does not only concerns pilots but anyone with that level of responsibility

[Jwscud]

I am actually constantly surprised that there is no mandatory random testing. Both the military and the oil industry do random drug and alcohol testing. They also test for drugs that are legal on prescription but can be misused (steroids &c.) If you declare drugs you are taking and they come up in your sample, there is no comeback whatsoever,a nod unless you fail, your employer gets no information whatsoever, including what you declare on the test form.

[Capt Pit Bull]

And let's have the same for our politicians and judiciary.

[ETOPS]

I think what's being missed here is the change of "mood" by airlines faced with scrutiny of the sort Lufthansa are currently under.

There will be a focus on how flight crew are handled - especially those being treated for stress/depression - and the new approach won't be as helpful as previously.

[pax britanica]

Ok so test the flight deck, but then you have to test line maintenance who can do every bit as much damage if they want, ofh and while we are about it test the heavy maintenance guys too, err and all the inspections people, and, well the trolley dolls might be tempted to put sleeping pills in the flight deck coffee so better test them too , oh and the Board might overlook testing for a vital area of safety so lets test them too.

If you introduce something like this in accompany every one has to face same issues from the Chairman to the guy on the front gate and of course its an excellent opportunity for the 'leadership team' to actually show some leadership by example rather than pay packet, so how can anyone be against it .

[cavok_flyer]

@ pax britanica . Thanks, I was just about to write the same. Same rules for all. Excuse me while I dream on... . And let's put the controllers in there as well.

[Airbubba]

I am actually constantly surprised that there is no mandatory random testing. Both the military and the oil industry do random drug and alcohol testing.

Ok so test the flight deck, but then you have to test line maintenance who can do every bit as much damage if they want, ofh and while we are about it test the heavy maintenance guys too, err and all the inspections people, and, well the trolley dolls might be tempted to put sleeping pills in the flight deck coffee so better test them too , oh and the Board might overlook testing for a vital area of safety so lets test them too.

We've had random drug and alcohol testing for pilots in the U.S. for a couple of decades now. And, maintenance workers and flight attendants are randomly tested as well. But not management...

Sadly, or fortunately (I can understand both viewpoints) someone seems to test positive a couple of times a year where I work. Many of these cases are handled quietly, often with a forced resignation or early retirement. These few random testing cases are in addition to the episodes where people are tested for cause or suspicion after, for example, security notices ETOH on their breath.

Here's some information from the Department of Transportation which oversees the FAA's testing program:

Office of Drug & Alcohol Policy & Compliance | Department of Transportation

I am a UK ATPL who currently takes daily SSRI Medication; I fly for a small/medium sized UK based operator with the full knowledge of my Flt.Ops/HR Dept, local AME and CAA AeMC at LGW. I attend a relaxed, informal consultation at LGW every 6 months to update my condition. My only restriction is an OML, Multi-Crew Operations only.

The FAA will now consider a Special Issuance Medical Certificate with the use of four specific SSRI's:

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...tidepressants/

[Jwscud]

pax britanica - that's exactly the way it was. Walk through the gates of a refinery and you are fair game, whether shift manager, secretary or bog cleaner

In this context I would bring it in throughout the airline in the same way - Flight Crew, Cabin Crew, Engineering, Ops - you name it.

[DeafOldFart]

Some forty years ago, I was employed in an engineering firm making stainless steel components for various high tech applications. The job was exceedingly demanding. I had a minor illness that reduced my stamina, and things got very difficult.
My doctor prescribed me something to ease the pressure.... not realising I flew light aircraft. Seems I was expected to stay at home and relax under the influence of a hypnotic drug.
Going back to work before I was ready resulted in a serious argument with the workshop manager! ,
So, emotional turmoil, leave work to fume somewhere else...
Pity the flying club was at the other end of the runway to the factory, pity someone suggested it was a nice day to fly!
After watching someone else in my skin flying along a road, there followed an interesting time returning to normality.
Make sure your doctor knows you fly... make sure you understand the effects of the medication!
Like going to the pub in the car, hand the keys over before the second drink!
CAA medical branch eventually relented, but there was a 25 year gap in my solo flying....
I imagine that a stressful cockpit environment is bearable when shared, and another person is around to monitor, and be monitored.
Solitude allows the mind to wander into dangerous areas!
If in doubt, stay in bed....

[Naali]

Heard a good rule of thumb years ago. If your condition prevents flying,be sure that the medication doesn,t do the same.

[RexBanner]

Lubitz didn't kill all of those people because he was depressed. He did it because he was a psychopath with a personality disorder.

[BEagle]

Meanwhile the UK CAA is proposing to do away with anything more demanding for UK (non-EASA) PPL and NPPL pilots than being able to hold a driving licence for private cars....

CAP 1284 Question 6:

Do you believe that private pilots who have a history of significant psychiatric condition (i.e. that requires medication) should be assessed by their GP rather than use a self-certification system? Please answer yes or no and provide reasons.

So if the general consensus is 'no' and some 'depressed' person subsequently decides to hire an aeroplane to go and cause mayhem.....

[Pace]

Lubitz didn't kill all of those people because he was depressed. He did it because he was a psychopath with a personality disorder.

Beagle

I agree with this posting above. Until you can identify what Lubitz suffered with and then eliminate those people from the flight deck it all becomes window dressing for public consumption.

Frankly it is an insult to people who suffer with depression to attach that mantle to a mass premeditated murderer.
A huge USA study on mass murderers found that 8 out of 10 showed NO signs of serious mental illness so going on a witch hunt for pilots who have suffered with depression which most probably have at some point in their lives is a scapegoat!

Ok Lufthansa are trying to give a message to the general public to show that they have done something to restore confidence but this move is doing nothing apart from pushing pilots to quango treatments and alternative medicine.

Putting the focus on depression where the majority would never harm a fly is an insult to those people and that condition.
It is no more accurate than saying people with stomach ulcers become mass murderers so anyone with pain like toothache can be a mass murderer.
identify the people with stomach ulcers and that seems to be a failure of the medical world to specify what was wrong with Lubitz and it certainly wasn't depression that caused him to pre meditate and mass murder all those poor people
it was something far more serious.

Until the medical world can identify exactly what condition Lubitz had? Can identify accurate tests to weed out those personalities this is all a scapegoat for public consumption only and an insult to millions of suffering innocent people who would never hurt a fly only themselves. Don't blanket wrap Lubitz who had a serious personality disorder with depression.

I have nothing against random drug tests on pilots that is a separate discussion and probably sensible. In locating a potential mass murderer where 8 out of 10 have no history of serious mental disorder or treatments drug tests would not locate the 8 out of 10