Airline pilots 'buckling under unacceptable pressures'?
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What I find revealing is that a group of "high earners" myself included are getting more vocal with regard to corporate greed and social responsibility.
Hmmm.
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But for sure it doesn't all get spent or re invested. That's why they get so Mardey at inheritance tax. Oh hold on, no they don't, they tie it up in a trust fund. Much more tax efficient.
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More on the upcoming 'new' mental health rules:
FAA to consider new mental health rules for commercial pilots - LA Times
Translation of the ALPA statement:
The new shrink tests will be implemented, as is customary, in two phases.
Phase One: Don't worry, trust me, ALPA will never allow it. It's an invasion of medical privacy forbidden by HIPPA, the ADA and other existing laws. Current tests are totally sufficient to ensure fitness for duty. It will never fly.
Six months later...
Phase Two: It's a done deal, our hands were tied, we had to go along with the new psych testing mandate or we would have no inputs to the rulemaking.
FAA to consider new mental health rules for commercial pilots
By Hugo Martin - LA Times
May 27, 2015, 2:04 PM
In the wake of airline catastrophes involving Germanwings and Malaysia Airline carriers, the Federal Aviation Administration is calling for a study on the mental and emotional health of commercial airline pilots.
The FAA announced Wednesday that it is working with an industry group that includes pilots and medical experts to come up with recommendations for new rules within six months.
The study comes in response to the deaths of 150 people in the crash of Germanwings flight 9525 in March. The copilot, who had been treated for suicidal tendencies, is believed to have deliberately crashed the plane into the French Alps.
Groups representing pilots and airlines said they will cooperate with the study.
"Safety is the industry’s top priority," said the International Air Transport Assn., a trade group for the world's airlines. "IATA is pleased to have the opportunity to contribute to this important initiative on pilot fitness."
The Air Line Pilots Assn, which represents 51,000 pilots at 30 airlines, issued a statement, saying: "We look forward to working alongside other key stakeholders in evaluating the extensive procedures and processes currently in place that provide a thorough monitoring of crewmembers in the United States.”...
By Hugo Martin - LA Times
May 27, 2015, 2:04 PM
In the wake of airline catastrophes involving Germanwings and Malaysia Airline carriers, the Federal Aviation Administration is calling for a study on the mental and emotional health of commercial airline pilots.
The FAA announced Wednesday that it is working with an industry group that includes pilots and medical experts to come up with recommendations for new rules within six months.
The study comes in response to the deaths of 150 people in the crash of Germanwings flight 9525 in March. The copilot, who had been treated for suicidal tendencies, is believed to have deliberately crashed the plane into the French Alps.
Groups representing pilots and airlines said they will cooperate with the study.
"Safety is the industry’s top priority," said the International Air Transport Assn., a trade group for the world's airlines. "IATA is pleased to have the opportunity to contribute to this important initiative on pilot fitness."
The Air Line Pilots Assn, which represents 51,000 pilots at 30 airlines, issued a statement, saying: "We look forward to working alongside other key stakeholders in evaluating the extensive procedures and processes currently in place that provide a thorough monitoring of crewmembers in the United States.”...
Translation of the ALPA statement:
The new shrink tests will be implemented, as is customary, in two phases.
Phase One: Don't worry, trust me, ALPA will never allow it. It's an invasion of medical privacy forbidden by HIPPA, the ADA and other existing laws. Current tests are totally sufficient to ensure fitness for duty. It will never fly.
Six months later...
Phase Two: It's a done deal, our hands were tied, we had to go along with the new psych testing mandate or we would have no inputs to the rulemaking.
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"The ARC will examine issues including the awareness and reporting of emotional and mental health issues, the methods used to evaluate pilot emotional and mental health, and barriers to reporting such issues.
"Based on the group's recommendations, the FAA may consider changes to medical methods, aircraft design, policies and procedures, pilot training and testing, training for Aerospace Medical Examiners, or potential actions that may be taken by professional, airline, or union groups. The ARC's meetings will not be open to the public," FAA said in a statement.
And after they have discovered that a perfectly healthy optimistic positive thinking pilot at entry to an airline has deteriorated into a nervous disturbed negative thinking pissed off employee who is angry at his bullying employer, and feeling betrayed by what was promised over many years, what then? Will the authorities then subject the culpable managers to equal scrutiny? This once again sounds like an easy cop-out of 'pilot error'. If there is an illness look for the root cause and treat the illness not the symptoms.
"Based on the group's recommendations, the FAA may consider changes to medical methods, aircraft design, policies and procedures, pilot training and testing, training for Aerospace Medical Examiners, or potential actions that may be taken by professional, airline, or union groups. The ARC's meetings will not be open to the public," FAA said in a statement.
And after they have discovered that a perfectly healthy optimistic positive thinking pilot at entry to an airline has deteriorated into a nervous disturbed negative thinking pissed off employee who is angry at his bullying employer, and feeling betrayed by what was promised over many years, what then? Will the authorities then subject the culpable managers to equal scrutiny? This once again sounds like an easy cop-out of 'pilot error'. If there is an illness look for the root cause and treat the illness not the symptoms.
Precisely RAT 5.
When I think back to the beginning of my career, I hardly recognise my former self!
I used to be motivated and keen to progress my career, now I am basically waiting for retirement and hoping I make it through with a clean record. Airline management are very quick to crush your career when their KPI driven world comes crashing down around you; their error your fault.
In Australia the industry is being decimated by industrially motivated fragmentation of airlines into contractors, sub-contractors and sub-sub-contractors. Divide and conquer tactics have many guys and girls I work with living in constant fear of being undercut by the next bunch of desperados just trying to keep food on the table.
"We all need to provide efficiencies for airline XYZ, or we risk losing the contract" has become the most commonly uttered statement by management in recent years and it's putting huge pressure on everyone.
When I think back to the beginning of my career, I hardly recognise my former self!
I used to be motivated and keen to progress my career, now I am basically waiting for retirement and hoping I make it through with a clean record. Airline management are very quick to crush your career when their KPI driven world comes crashing down around you; their error your fault.
In Australia the industry is being decimated by industrially motivated fragmentation of airlines into contractors, sub-contractors and sub-sub-contractors. Divide and conquer tactics have many guys and girls I work with living in constant fear of being undercut by the next bunch of desperados just trying to keep food on the table.
"We all need to provide efficiencies for airline XYZ, or we risk losing the contract" has become the most commonly uttered statement by management in recent years and it's putting huge pressure on everyone.
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When I think back to the beginning of my career, I hardly recognise my former self!
I started my career with a carrier that meant my wife could spend more time with her parents, and am currently in the UK with a LCC.
Whilst it's not a dream for most, I am at home every night but 2 (in 17 months here), and that's one of the reasons I won't go to LH.
Yes, 5 on can be tiring, but for me anyway, no more than the 'normal' job I was doing before.
I used to be motivated and keen to progress my career, now I am basically waiting for retirement and hoping I make it through with a clean record
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airbubba:
Ah yes, the Paper Tiger.
Translation of the ALPA statement:
The new shrink tests will be implemented, as is customary, in two phases.
Phase One: Don't worry, trust me, ALPA will never allow it. It's an invasion of medical privacy forbidden by HIPPA, the ADA and other existing laws. Current tests are totally sufficient to ensure fitness for duty. It will never fly.
Six months later...
Phase Two: It's a done deal, our hands were tied, we had to go along with the new psych testing mandate or we would have no inputs to the rulemaking.
The new shrink tests will be implemented, as is customary, in two phases.
Phase One: Don't worry, trust me, ALPA will never allow it. It's an invasion of medical privacy forbidden by HIPPA, the ADA and other existing laws. Current tests are totally sufficient to ensure fitness for duty. It will never fly.
Six months later...
Phase Two: It's a done deal, our hands were tied, we had to go along with the new psych testing mandate or we would have no inputs to the rulemaking.
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U.S. airline pilots undergo a medical exam with an FAA-approved doctor every six or 12 months, depending on the pilot's age.
If they want to make a change, the airlines should be mandated to have comprehensive medical departments.
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Gordon,i have just the same feeling as You. I lost so many familiar faces,people i was accustomed to work with,-were thrown away within this nonsense of cutting everything into pieces. Years of knowledge before me,was waisted as a trash,-depriving also from me the opportunity to learn from them. In my last years,it was almost a happy surprise to meet a loader i knew,or a mechanic i had known for years. And for sure,-they were working with cutout pay,just to have any decent pension. And everyone just wanted to get out of this,because there was no reason to be proud of Your work anymore. 40 years of working with airplanes was suddenly nothing... Be it New School of Economics,but i think they have missed something in there. ...or quite a lot.
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Aterpster,I learned the hard way. Never, ever,-tell anyone of anything,because any such will inevitably be used against You. Usually by those who haven,t got the faintest idea of what You are talking about. Added: -or do not really give an xxxx,of what You think. Thanks for telling and home for dinner. Sorry i,m not from Region Anglese,so what do You mean by comprehensive? Lighten me a bit more in here.
Last edited by Naali; 30th May 2015 at 03:28.
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Our physicals about some years ago,contained mostly about the common practices, and if You kept Your mouth mouth shut of anything personal,-You passed. Any word of anything else,was learned to be kept within Yourself. That way,any trouble within yourself,-be it life situations or personal thoughts of trying to find more of life than flying,-would be unaccectable to tell at Your medical. You,d be grounded by walking out of that door. Pilots,as sad that it sounds,tend to be humans,also. Sky does not keep us away from anything of what people have. It does do its ways still,taking those hours away from being somewhere else, -where the other people are, and live. There might be an issue,for an interest for someone doing a preliminary for something.
Last edited by Naali; 30th May 2015 at 05:31.
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I ,try to gather all these opinions around from many threads and try to make something out of it. Pro people are not very happy with their profession. And that does not look like anything of future ,-for people within the whole industry ,-as we seem to be stuck in there for good. That is bound to cause problems,even unknown now? Universities of Economy may have missed some very important courses. Humans. Ps. Not talking about Humans in the books,-the real ones,I am referring to as Humans. You have hard times finding those in any companies at the upper floors. And that,s why i think the airline "industry" is in troubles. Airline operation is not a banking business,and should not be regarded as such.
Last edited by Naali; 30th May 2015 at 05:11.
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Read and learn about the stories of how the airlines treat their ground handlers. Read the thread about a LoCo in Spain and a threatened strike to try and protect the employees' livelihood. They are a link in the chain, unionised, and yet they are still targeted for slash & burn tactics. Not long before all the other links are equally targeted; and many of those are non-unionised/united and so vulnerable. Greed is a great fueler for such strategies and has unstoppable inertia.
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@RAT 5
You are correct as many flying people in airlines have little knowledge of the conditions of ground staff; yet it is these people, who work hard indeed, that have been one of the largest targets in the race to drive down costs.
Hundreds, if not thousands of them, have been 'outsourced' and their employment conditions radically altered, and not for the better.
You are correct as many flying people in airlines have little knowledge of the conditions of ground staff; yet it is these people, who work hard indeed, that have been one of the largest targets in the race to drive down costs.
Hundreds, if not thousands of them, have been 'outsourced' and their employment conditions radically altered, and not for the better.
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Learn about how airlines treat their grouncrews.
And these are all holes in the Swiss cheese, that could lead to incidents. But nobody cares.
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Lowcostisation of society
Greed and low-co at all costs.
Human beings' health less important than greed and profit.
I agree that airlines ground staff is under extreme pressure and working conditions are too often inhumane, not to mention the immense pressure from customers during severe disruptions. I have seen ground personnel in tears more than once. This is not fair.
We need to stop this trend urgently, we must realise that the future of our children, which means the future of humanity, does not look a happy one at all if this trend is not urgently stopped.
We, as human beings, cannot allow unregulated greed and profit of a minority to be more important than the happiness of the vast majority: when working regulations and conditions are set there must be the right balance in between the two, at the present time profit and greed are clearly causing an unsustainable
erosion of working conditions.
Human beings' health less important than greed and profit.
I agree that airlines ground staff is under extreme pressure and working conditions are too often inhumane, not to mention the immense pressure from customers during severe disruptions. I have seen ground personnel in tears more than once. This is not fair.
We need to stop this trend urgently, we must realise that the future of our children, which means the future of humanity, does not look a happy one at all if this trend is not urgently stopped.
We, as human beings, cannot allow unregulated greed and profit of a minority to be more important than the happiness of the vast majority: when working regulations and conditions are set there must be the right balance in between the two, at the present time profit and greed are clearly causing an unsustainable
erosion of working conditions.
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@silverstrata
The average couple of times a year pax may not notice but to frequent fliers and those of us with a history in the business the change is palpable.
I know when seasoned staff are dealing with a matter and I know when unseasoned ones are doing the same.
The cost cutting measures are as obvious as the wobbly bits of a bulldog.
It's a tidal thing this outsourcing and for a while the flavour of the month; then things change and back come the season staff (more fool any company that doesn't keep a stock of them).
The average couple of times a year pax may not notice but to frequent fliers and those of us with a history in the business the change is palpable.
I know when seasoned staff are dealing with a matter and I know when unseasoned ones are doing the same.
The cost cutting measures are as obvious as the wobbly bits of a bulldog.
It's a tidal thing this outsourcing and for a while the flavour of the month; then things change and back come the season staff (more fool any company that doesn't keep a stock of them).