Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France
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So. Lufthansa appear to have said that here is no stopping a 'rogue pilot'.
To commit mass murder.
Sorry, Lufthansa. Not good enough.
If this is how you, as a company, feel, why would anyone risk their lives flying with you? Ever again?
To commit mass murder.
Sorry, Lufthansa. Not good enough.
If this is how you, as a company, feel, why would anyone risk their lives flying with you? Ever again?
As unfortunate as it is, if somebody is intent on causing harm, either to themselves or others, and their intent is not known in advance, there is little that can be done to stop them. This applies to anybody in any situation or profession. All that can be done is to analyse what they did, and try to make changes to prevent re-occurrence of the same sequence of events. There will, however, always be a way - it is not possible to completely eliminate risk - in ANY environment.
The aviation industry uses the ALARP standard - As Low As Reasonably Practicable - in risk mitigation. This means that, whilst concreting pilots into the flight deck after boarding may be a way of eliminating the possibility of in-flight FD intrusion - it is hardly practicable.
And commercial realities often have to be taken into account when deciding what is 'practicable'.
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In 1999, before the advent of the current cockpit doors, an Egyption Airlines First Officer who was about to face disciplinary issues from his airline, managed to crash a 767 into the Atlantic Ocean and kill 217 people, even though the Captain had gotten back into the seat and was trying to recover the aircraft.
Having a FA sitting on the jumpseat will do FA to prevent a re-occurrence of this.
While it is possible now to quantify the number of lives lost as a result of increased cockpit security, and keen observers also class MH370 as a probable candidate here, it is not possible to put a number on how many potential lives have been saved by these measures.
The answer to this problem lies in monitoring our fellow pilots and taking an interest in their welfare. Aviation is a balance, a compromise. Always was, always will be.
Having a FA sitting on the jumpseat will do FA to prevent a re-occurrence of this.
While it is possible now to quantify the number of lives lost as a result of increased cockpit security, and keen observers also class MH370 as a probable candidate here, it is not possible to put a number on how many potential lives have been saved by these measures.
The answer to this problem lies in monitoring our fellow pilots and taking an interest in their welfare. Aviation is a balance, a compromise. Always was, always will be.
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AKAAB
....really like most parts of your reply/input, Sir.
Many F/D crew (incl. alcohol) not really sure what 'normal' is in that day-today environment and put up with a load of 'stuff'.
As any Psychiatrist/Psychologist will tell you...hopefully truthfully....there is no test ever to explain why someone just 'snaps'.
Dysfunction, mentally, can come as either 'inwardly-directed' suicide at almost a moment's notice and 'exogenously-directed' to 'kill them all' within frighteningly short timescales. (Almost common in Post-traumatic stress cases, such as war scenarios, for just one example).
The truth is that despite people saying things like he/she would never do that, unfortunately, we are governed by brain activity and anyone can do anything under certain circumstances that are completely undetectable beforehand.
How the relatives/family/friends react will likely be their eventual understanding of the above truths.
Many F/D crew (incl. alcohol) not really sure what 'normal' is in that day-today environment and put up with a load of 'stuff'.
As any Psychiatrist/Psychologist will tell you...hopefully truthfully....there is no test ever to explain why someone just 'snaps'.
Dysfunction, mentally, can come as either 'inwardly-directed' suicide at almost a moment's notice and 'exogenously-directed' to 'kill them all' within frighteningly short timescales. (Almost common in Post-traumatic stress cases, such as war scenarios, for just one example).
The truth is that despite people saying things like he/she would never do that, unfortunately, we are governed by brain activity and anyone can do anything under certain circumstances that are completely undetectable beforehand.
How the relatives/family/friends react will likely be their eventual understanding of the above truths.
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ZS-NDV
So why was the flt deck door kept locked, why did the co-pilot keep the door locked, why did the co-pilot not talk to ATC ?....that explanation is the biggest load of BS I've heard for a long time. 
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Longtimer
I also think that during those years of Pan Am, most A/C used to have four Cockpit Crew because they had a Flight Engineer and Navigator besides the Captain and F/O. Other than that they might have had a positioning crew in the cockpit. Nevertheless this co-pilot was determined to fly the plane to the mountain.
It all goes back to 9/11 - and the perpetrators behind all that, viz locked cockpit doors
I bet all the passengers had to take off their shoes to satisfy security before boarding.
Sorry, don't want to sound insensitive but I'm sure you get the point, the Bad Guys - of any persuasion - will do precisely what they want, whenever they want to do it, despite our best efforts.
I bet all the passengers had to take off their shoes to satisfy security before boarding.
Sorry, don't want to sound insensitive but I'm sure you get the point, the Bad Guys - of any persuasion - will do precisely what they want, whenever they want to do it, despite our best efforts.
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John James: post-mortem toxicology is absolutely feasible and these days highly accurate providing the correct body is identified. For my sins I have attended a lot of fatal multi-casualty disasters in my career (the vast majority - but not all - thankfully non-aviation related) and I have little doubt that both the pre-mortem medical records and post-mortem toxicology will be respectively scrutinized and run very carefully. A post-mortem - and I hope this doesn't distress any relatives - will also be looking very carefully for medical problems such as tumours etc. which can absolutely cause aberrant behavior. But actually, the incidence of that is really low. It is not zero so most of the anecdotes people have read are true but it is low.
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I have read all the posts before posting. I wish others did. I have not seen a resolution to whether the altitude set was made one time only, just before the beginning of descent, or whether there were subsequent resets, as has also been posted. This makes a big difference on the question of consciousness. The noise of breathing, without characterizing any changes in it, is by itself no proof of consciousness. If unconscious, knocking on the door, and musings about what one moral issues one thinks about during an 8 minute suicide, are moot confusions.
Don't think you have.!
The CEO of GW/LH has confirmed the BEA statement that the Lock switch was operated more than once 5 mins apart.
You should understand the relevance/significance of that as you have read all the posts included twice where I have posted (as have others) extracts from the 320 manual explaining the Lock function and time delay.
Rex: are you suggesting that might have been a straw that broke a camel's back? 
Unfortunately I suspect there won't be enough left of the co-pilot to do an post crash forensics on his brain to determine any presence of abnormal physiology etc. that might influence behaviour as some previous posters have suggested.
Hard to believe that what was a terrible tragedy now appears to be even worse.
Hard to believe that what was a terrible tragedy now appears to be even worse.
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Not sure if there is sarcasm intended there but just in case not, no I'm saying subjecting flight crew to the same security measures as passengers in the light of what has just happened - and the very notable fact that there is an axe on the flight deck - exposes such practice as the sham that it is and ought to be repealed immediately.
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Quote:
@the hawk
but door lock was activated at least twice in the 8 minute descent period
Was that stated in a press conference or a presumption? The pilot may have been to busy trying to break the door down to check his watch and try the code again.
Normal breathing and no talk could be the result of being incapacitated.
@the hawk
but door lock was activated at least twice in the 8 minute descent period
Was that stated in a press conference or a presumption? The pilot may have been to busy trying to break the door down to check his watch and try the code again.
Normal breathing and no talk could be the result of being incapacitated.
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Downward leg abnormalities?
During the Lufthansa press conference earlier today a (seemingly informed) media member asked the panel for further information on some 'abnormalities' in, what I understood to be, the crew's actions on the downward leg, DUS - BCN.
I believe it was stated by the panel that this would be followed up. Yet, I don't see any further reference to this in media reports nor in any other posts here.
Was this dispelled?
Just wondering if something had 'gone off' between the two crew on this leg it could have been a trigger for what occurred on the return.
I believe it was stated by the panel that this would be followed up. Yet, I don't see any further reference to this in media reports nor in any other posts here.
Was this dispelled?
Just wondering if something had 'gone off' between the two crew on this leg it could have been a trigger for what occurred on the return.
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CNN: "Transponder data shows that the autopilot on Germanwings Flight 9525 was reprogrammed by someone in the cockpit to change the plane's altitude from 38,000 feet to 100 feet, according to Flightradar24, a website that tracks aviation data." What? There is no way anyone can see what's been programmed on the FD................
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Apologies if this has already been discussed, but maybe it's possible the co-pilot hadn't planned this. It could have been a spur-of-the-moment decision as a result of something that happened at the start of the flight. For instance, maybe he took umbrage at an innocent remark from the captain in the first few minutes of the flight and decided to crash the plane just minutes before he actually did so.
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Apologies if this has already been discussed, but maybe it's possible the co-pilot hadn't planned this. It could have been a spur-of-the-moment decision as a result of something that happened at the start of the flight. For instance, maybe he took umbrage at an innocent remark from the captain in the first few minutes of the flight and decided to crash the plane just minutes before he actually did so.