Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France
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My understanding of the many replies on the CVR contents is that they had retrieved an audio file short ago, they had corroborated that things could be heard so it is usable, and that it belongs to the flight in question, but any deeper analysis is ongoing so he couldn't comment yet on whose voices are there, at which phase of the flight correspond, etc.
But yes, at some point he said there were voices on record.
But yes, at some point he said there were voices on record.
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This is the best translation of the exact statement I can offer:
'We have not been able to analyze everything the pilots said after recovering the voice recorder of the crashed Germanwings plane."
We should be able to analyze and time-stamp everything recorded in the cockpit, but it may take a couple of days.
This is what Rémi Jouty, Director BEA (Bureau d'Enquêtes et d'Analyses pour la sécurité de l'aviation civile) explained today.
He did not confirm to have located the second part of the black box containing all technical data.
He had no reason why the plane started a decent and crashed with full speed in the French mountain region. French civil aviation professionals tried to contact the pilots after they noticed the unexpected decent without success.
When asked if they were be able to recognize the voice of pilots after the decent started, he refused to respond.
The speed of descent was about 3,500ft per minute, he says. There is a question about rumours of lithium in the cargo. Jouty says such questions have to be investigated.
When asked about a possible a terror attack, he also refused to respond.
We should be able to analyze and time-stamp everything recorded in the cockpit, but it may take a couple of days.
This is what Rémi Jouty, Director BEA (Bureau d'Enquêtes et d'Analyses pour la sécurité de l'aviation civile) explained today.
He did not confirm to have located the second part of the black box containing all technical data.
He had no reason why the plane started a decent and crashed with full speed in the French mountain region. French civil aviation professionals tried to contact the pilots after they noticed the unexpected decent without success.
When asked if they were be able to recognize the voice of pilots after the decent started, he refused to respond.
The speed of descent was about 3,500ft per minute, he says. There is a question about rumours of lithium in the cargo. Jouty says such questions have to be investigated.
When asked about a possible a terror attack, he also refused to respond.
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BEA press conference
I claim to accept the need for extreme prudence by the head of such an organisation in such circumstances as these.
I was however surprised that:
i) He said that he hadn't listened to the cockpit recording at all himself almost 8 hrs after it arrived on site.
ii) He refused to say if the voices were speaking in English or German
iii) He intimated that his organisation had not yet received a copy of the cargo manifest (in response to a question concerning the presence there of lithium batteries.)
I was however surprised that:
i) He said that he hadn't listened to the cockpit recording at all himself almost 8 hrs after it arrived on site.
ii) He refused to say if the voices were speaking in English or German
iii) He intimated that his organisation had not yet received a copy of the cargo manifest (in response to a question concerning the presence there of lithium batteries.)
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Oddchina
Stupid? Fair enough. Maybe my post was. However just watch. As the post goes on and more 'news' articals are published the theories will get more and more sensational.
A few words from the BEA could have kept some sort of restraint by the press and maybe go a ways toward reassuring the thousands who work on the 'Bus and the millions who travel on them. That is all and I make no apology whatsoever.
If you're going to have a press conference or a news conference then have something to tell. Don't regurgeteate facts already printed 24 hours ago by germanwings with a couple of extra bits of information. Give us something meaningful. In a world where people want to know EVERYTHING and know it NOW, people will just make things up to fill in the blanks.
A few words from the BEA could have kept some sort of restraint by the press and maybe go a ways toward reassuring the thousands who work on the 'Bus and the millions who travel on them. That is all and I make no apology whatsoever.
If you're going to have a press conference or a news conference then have something to tell. Don't regurgeteate facts already printed 24 hours ago by germanwings with a couple of extra bits of information. Give us something meaningful. In a world where people want to know EVERYTHING and know it NOW, people will just make things up to fill in the blanks.
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But yes, at some point he said there were voices on record.
His reason for giving no further information was that they were still syncing the recording to the flight in question.
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Simulating Decompression
Of course you can simulate explosive decompression. Every military pilot has to go through it. I went through the altitude chamber several times during my career in the Army, including explosive decompression. Yes, it's disorienting. Yes, it makes the air in your lungs expand and you cannot speak, but all of the symptoms dissipate after a few moments and you are free to put on your oxygen mask and then fly the aircraft. That cockpit crew should have had quick-don mask at the ready. Something else happened to this crew.
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BEA Press Conference translation
We have not been able to analyze everything the pilots said after recovering the voice recorder of the crashed Germanwings plane."
We should be able to analyze and time-stamp everything recorded in the cockpit, but it may take a couple of days.
We should be able to analyze and time-stamp everything recorded in the cockpit, but it may take a couple of days.
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From an anonymous comment on avherald:
Quote:
CVR data has been read. It seems structural failure (windshield? not determined yet)..It was quick... sound of cracks,but crew initiated emergency descent by autopilot and then they weren't heard anymore. Autopilot was on during whole descent, but disconnected automatically shortly before impact when GPWS alerts appeared.
Quote:
CVR data has been read. It seems structural failure (windshield? not determined yet)..It was quick... sound of cracks,but crew initiated emergency descent by autopilot and then they weren't heard anymore. Autopilot was on during whole descent, but disconnected automatically shortly before impact when GPWS alerts appeared.
A workhorse airliner could have a fault that has demonstrably incapacitated a crew and led to the loss of life of all on board, yet because management pilot relations are so untrusting there is no simple video recording to show what went wrong.
So let's hope those SME's can identify what the failure was from the noise. Or all the A-319 - 321 series, of that vintage at least, may be flying with a problem.
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Originally Posted by INeedTheFull90
Surely if anything was heard they could have briefly summarised it. I appreciate they need to be meticulous. However the CVR has been at the BEA for several hours now. Chance for the last ten minutes of the flight to be listened to many times over. They MUST know something. This lack of information will just cause people to read between the lines and again as night falls on now day 2, with no more REAL information, speculation will become frenzied and tomorrow's newspapers (especially the vile ones we have here in the UK) will be full on sensationalist speculation and scaremongering based on what some FS98 pilot has said on here..
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"these look like classic organic-rich (i.e. intensely black) shales to me and hence is their naturally colour. The more resistant, thin, lighter coloured rocks (seemingly uncharred) are white-yellow sandstone layers."
I walk a lot in this area and confirm this. The ground is a loose, friable clay/shale with isolated pieces of sedimentary rock. It's usually dark grey to black. Black appears more when cut open or if wet. Scrambling on it is hard work as the ground if heavily ravined and breaks up easily and falls apart. Landslips and erosion are common after rain/thaw. The detailed landscape can change from year to year as features collapse or wash out.
I'm surprised to see no main impact point. I think it possible significant amounts of aircraft parts lie under shale that has broken off and fallen on top. Possibly the FDR has been buried in this way.
I walk a lot in this area and confirm this. The ground is a loose, friable clay/shale with isolated pieces of sedimentary rock. It's usually dark grey to black. Black appears more when cut open or if wet. Scrambling on it is hard work as the ground if heavily ravined and breaks up easily and falls apart. Landslips and erosion are common after rain/thaw. The detailed landscape can change from year to year as features collapse or wash out.
I'm surprised to see no main impact point. I think it possible significant amounts of aircraft parts lie under shale that has broken off and fallen on top. Possibly the FDR has been buried in this way.
Of course you can simulate explosive decompression. Every military pilot has to go through it. I went through the altitude chamber several times during my career in the Army, including explosive decompression. Yes, it's disorienting....... Something else happened to this crew.
I reckon the real thing is very different :-/
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All these comments about what happens in an explosive decompression - my first hand experience as the flight test engineer (B744) and caught not paying attention - when those valves were opened I was unconscious in less than 15 seconds - I remember the world getting very slow but that's it. Woke up around 8 000 ft somewhere if I recall. Barely functional the rest of that day.
(I was biking about 70 K a day back then and in great shape)
(I was biking about 70 K a day back then and in great shape)
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Whilst realising that this aircraft suffered a tremendous impact, is it possible that even greater protection for the CVR and FDR might now be considered - such as a detachable capsule?
Hum: the mention of Ruddles gives yr post authenticity, all right! But my log book says 25k - 45k and later, 27k -56k. So not all were the same.
Fonsini: in your hypothesis, 7700 would not be the appropriate squawk.
Fonsini: in your hypothesis, 7700 would not be the appropriate squawk.
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avherald
From an anonymous comment on avherald:
CVR data has been read. It seems structural failure (windshield? not determined yet)..It was quick... sound of cracks,but crew initiated emergency descent by autopilot and then they weren't heard anymore. Autopilot was on during whole descent, but disconnected automatically shortly before impact when GPWS alerts appeared.
CVR data has been read. It seems structural failure (windshield? not determined yet)..It was quick... sound of cracks,but crew initiated emergency descent by autopilot and then they weren't heard anymore. Autopilot was on during whole descent, but disconnected automatically shortly before impact when GPWS alerts appeared.
another bit said to be from the same avherald (The Aviation Herald avherald(.com) is the website) posted several the pages back indicated that some data has been recovered from the FDR -Hello?
The at the present story (not the comments thereto) from said same avherald.com website states:
When confronted by journalists with rumours originating in Finnish media quoting Finland's CAA about a burst windshield, the BEA said they have no such information.
@G-CPTN
When, where and how would a capsulized recorder be "ejected" for the sake of saving the data? What would trigger it and what about the lost data prior to impact?
Just asking.
When, where and how would a capsulized recorder be "ejected" for the sake of saving the data? What would trigger it and what about the lost data prior to impact?
Just asking.
I claim to accept the need for extreme prudence by the head of such an organisation in such circumstances as these.
I was however surprised that:
i) He said that he hadn't listened to the cockpit recording at all himself almost 8 hrs after it arrived on site.
I was however surprised that:
i) He said that he hadn't listened to the cockpit recording at all himself almost 8 hrs after it arrived on site.
We have as yet insufficient information to establish a cause or even contributor to this tragic event.
But if there is any benefit from all the educated speculation, perhaps it is motivation to pilots still flying to review the emergency procedures for a decompression and be better prepared for such an unlikely - but still possible - event. First actions are critical.
I think that might be the kind of reaction our successful Captain Sullenberger might encourage.
But if there is any benefit from all the educated speculation, perhaps it is motivation to pilots still flying to review the emergency procedures for a decompression and be better prepared for such an unlikely - but still possible - event. First actions are critical.
I think that might be the kind of reaction our successful Captain Sullenberger might encourage.