Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France

Old 26th Mar 2015, 17:12
  #1341 (permalink)  

Rotate on this!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Aberdeen
Age: 61
Posts: 403
Those locked doors have now killed more people than they have saved.
How is it even possible to make that statement?

SLFguy is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2015, 17:13
  #1342 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Stoke
Posts: 7
US involvement

Cyberhacker ...

I imagine the FBI would be involved due to US involvement in aircraft (engine?) manufacture ...?

Also there were 3 US citizens aboard.

Finally, - (and no I'm NOT one of the tinfoil hat brigade) I think one could possibly be a person of extra interest for the US - Yvonne Selke - as she apparently worked for Pentagon contractors Booz Allen Hamilton doing work for the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency.

Yvonne Selke and Emily Selke, Nokesville Mom, Daughter, Presumed Dead in French Plane Crash | NBC4 Washington
Interested Lay Bloke is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2015, 17:13
  #1343 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: big green wheely bin
Posts: 686
I was under the impression that you could hear him winding the Alt knob on the CVR. Can't find it now though.
Jonty is online now  
Old 26th Mar 2015, 17:14
  #1344 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 91
We have analysed the raw data from the transponder of #4U9525 and found some more dat
AirScotia is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2015, 17:15
  #1345 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Ireland
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by acpm View Post
a 28yr old with 600TT and 100 A320SIC...has no business being in the cockpit of the germanwings 320...when I got to his position at a US airline I had well over 10,000 hours and pushing 40+. Heard ryanair had a 18yr old f/o...ladies and gentlemen we need mature, experienced, stable people flying this type of aircraft PERIOD.
You are correct, in general, but;
This incident has little or nothing to do with flying experience.
Buckfast is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2015, 17:17
  #1346 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: EGNX
Posts: 1,173
Regarding costs of safety perhaps the time has come for a safety fund provided by each state (paid for by premiums by airlines or flat surcharges to tickets per journey or mile) which provides a subsidy to airlines in order to "top up" any safety aspect deemed necessary such as an extra pilot, extra crew to lower hours slightly, more fuel on board etc. If it is a level playing field then there can be no competitive issues.
Doors to Automatic is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2015, 17:17
  #1347 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 25
A considerable issue is that if a pilot goes to the company and says he is stressed or depressed or suffering any diminished mental capacity, he is usually taken off line and a black mark put against his name. Even if the condition is a passing one (e.g. due to a divorce, death in the family, financial woes), the pilot will still be earmarked as 'one to watch'. This in itself would mean that the system is operating as it is supposed to, but unfortunately any real or perceived reduction in a pilots capacity to handle stress will haunt his CV forever. Medical departments know what is at stake and err on the side of caution in most cases.

Couple this with the fact that there are no loss of licence policies that cover diminished mental capacity/mental illness, and coming forward to say you think you have a problem is as good as tearing up your pay check and kissing your career goodbye.
flyonthewall is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2015, 17:22
  #1348 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Placey Place.
Posts: 95
a 28yr old with 600TT and 100 A320SIC...has no business being in the cockpit of the germanwings 320...when I got to his position at a US airline I had well over 10,000 hours and pushing 40+. Heard ryanair had a 18yr old f/o...ladies and gentlemen we need mature, experienced, stable people flying this type of aircraft PERIOD.
The pool of pilots with such vast pre-airline experience simply does not exist in Europe. In the US you have a very active GA sector to get pilots from even at a time when the first Vietnam-era pilots are starting to retire. For that reason, in Europe we've mostly had to rely on pilot selection by raw aptitude, especially in the last 10-15 years or so, rather than the ability to recruit seasoned experts for their first airline positions. It's just how things are.
banjodrone is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2015, 17:24
  #1349 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 91
Is it beyond the architecture of most jets to install a second security door across the corridor leading to the forward loo? It could be left open at all times, and cabin crew alerted to lock it when a member of flight crew needed to use the facilities.
AirScotia is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2015, 17:24
  #1350 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Home
Posts: 947
What a difference this affair shows regarding the Air Safety culture in Europe re some other parts of the world.
AirAsia have had the CVR and FDR info for a month or two now, and yet not a word of a preliminary report of the fatal A320 accident off Indonesia, again seemingly crew related.
cessnapete is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2015, 17:25
  #1351 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Europe
Posts: 20
they will have to sacrifice that 1/2 sqm extra for that safety..
iflyboeing747 is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2015, 17:27
  #1352 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: South East Asia
Posts: 187
Operated an ex-QF 400 out of Nigeria in 2013. It had exactly that!!.....A LAV in the cockpit.
FO Cokebottle is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2015, 17:28
  #1353 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Grand Turk
Age: 57
Posts: 66
If we take out the consideration of the Captain being locked out and the various Facebook theories, what are the possibilities of the PF having a mini-stroke or other cognitive impairment? Was he confused as to the stage of flight and fixated on the landing briefing in a state of semi-consciousness thinking that he was to commence descent?

Even for someone that is deranged and about to kill himself and all his passengers and crew, it would be surprising to me that he did not say a word (or so it appears).
wheelsright is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2015, 17:29
  #1354 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Age: 68
Posts: 20
@de facto, a more charitable interpretation could class this as lateral thinking!
Shandy52 is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2015, 17:30
  #1355 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The Wild West (UK)
Age: 42
Posts: 1,149
Whatever the truth of this crash, I wonder what the ensuing discussions will means for pilots who have or who have suffered depression?

It's a very common disease, even in its severe forms. People differ in their resilience, but practically everybody will crack up mentally given a sufficiently adverse sequence of events. Most will recover and return to being productive members of society.

The important thing to remember is that most depressed pilots don't end up killing themselves or anybody else. And also that enabling people to seek support for their depression without fear of censure is likely to be safer than draconian options such as forcing them to work through an episode, hiding it from their peers at risk of losing their careers if they're found out.
abgd is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2015, 17:35
  #1356 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: USofA
Posts: 1,193
In fact there is a secondary security door option on the 787 and 777.
Spooky 2 is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2015, 17:37
  #1357 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cotswolds
Age: 64
Posts: 1,263
Total time when he joined Lufthansa in september2013 of just 650 hours? That does not make sense.... Thats an average of some 40 hours per month?

Was he on part time contract and unable to generate sufficient money to live on?
vanHorck is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2015, 17:41
  #1358 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 91

This wouldn't have prevented the incident. Cockpit door would still possibly be closed after Captain/FO exit to go to the lavatory. Even if it wasn't, when the Pilot goes to the lavatory the other could get up and close it.
The point is to allow access to the loo without the cockpit door being locked, so the locking mechanism for the cockpit door would have to be automatically disabled as soon as the crew member opened it.
AirScotia is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2015, 17:42
  #1359 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 223
Or he is entering the wrong code
The Lufthansa CEO said that even the flight attendants know this code.
You can lock the Keypad out from inside the Cockpit; this is a key part of the system, so a Flight Attendant with a knife to their throat can be made to opne the door .
gordonroxburgh is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2015, 17:44
  #1360 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: wales
Age: 77
Posts: 316
Ident.: DSC-25-11-20-00001007.0001001 / 10 DEC 09
Applicable to: ALL
The Cockpit Door Locking System (CDLS) provides a means of electrically locking and unlocking the
cockpit door. This system is mainly composed of :
‐ A keypad, located in the forward cabin, near the cockpit door,
‐ A toggle switch, located in the center pedestal’s Cockpit Door panel,
‐ A control unit and its CKPT DOOR CONT normal panel, located on the overhead panel,
‐ A buzzer.
The keypad enables the cabin crew to request access to the cockpit. There are two different access
request types : “Routine” and “Emergency” access request (Refer to PRO-SUP-25 Cockpit Door
Operation - General).
The toggle switch enables the flight crew to lock or unlock the cockpit door, following an access
request, thereby allowing or denying the entry to the cockpit.
The cockpit door control unit is the system controller, in charge of :
‐ Locking or unlocking the door latches, upon flight crew action.
‐ Unlocking the door, in case of cockpit decompression (the door then opens towards the cockpit
under differential pressure).
‐ Indicating system failures of electrical latches and pressure sensors.
‐ Activating the access request buzzer and turning on the keypad LEDs.
The buzzer sounds in the cockpit for 1 to 9 s to indicate that a routine access request has been
made, or sounds continuously if an emergency access procedure has been initiated.
There have been a number of posts suggesting depressurising the aircraft, the above text from the manual says COCKPIT decompression (see bold txt), so does this mean depressurising the cabin would not unlock the door until the FD had slowly reduced via panels etc, and even then as the flight deck would only reduce to the same lower cabin pressure there would not be a negative differential in the cabin so would it work?

It also says with a cabin dperessure the door would open inwards due to pressure differential, I take it it cannot open in the outwards direction even manually.
oldoberon is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.