Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France
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However, in those rare cases of pilot suicide/mass murder, there's not a single instance of a safe descent leading to CFIT. Why risk eight minutes of possible interference, listening to your co-pilot and ATC when you have control of the cockpit and could get it over with much quicker.
So, which airline will be the first to require a member of CC to be in the flight deck whilst one of the pilots attends to a call of nature ?
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IMO the aviation authorities have put security above safety.
Security measures get in the way of best practice, on the ground and in the air.
It has and will continue to result in loss of life. Perhaps this approach has saved more lives than have been lost. Who knows?
Security measures get in the way of best practice, on the ground and in the air.
It has and will continue to result in loss of life. Perhaps this approach has saved more lives than have been lost. Who knows?
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So, which airline will be the first to require a member of CC to be in the flight deck whilst one of the pilots attends to a call of nature ?
If the person's intent is terrorism related i.e. a sleeper, decide which is easier to plant: a pilot with an intensive six figure training process to go through, or a few week CC induction course?
Currently, a CC member would be pushed to rely on getting cockpit access with only 1 pilot present.
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So, which airline will be the first to require a member of CC to be in the flight deck whilst one of the pilots attends to a call of nature ?
Sounds very like the RAF's Airbus incident! Just throw in a locked door and all the holes in the cheese line up.
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Never mind a toilet break, quite often on a quick turnaround I never got out the seat - it's not very healthy to sit in one position for long periods and the activity of getting out the seat and freshening up keeps you alert and awake.
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Mobile phone
Having experimented in that region with phone signal from an aircraft, no signal. Also having driven on the ground in the area, very very poor signal. Lots of black spots. Generally it is very very hard to get out a text when above 2-3000 meters. You might have signal but text will hang.
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Originally Posted by akaSylvia
However, in those rare cases of pilot suicide/mass murder, there's not a single instance of a safe descent leading to CFIT. Why risk eight minutes of possible interference, listening to your co-pilot and ATC when you have control of the cockpit and could get it over with much quicker.
But anyway, locked cockpit door or not, two pilots at the controls or not:
If one of the pilots is determined to kill himself and the passengers, it's more then probable that he will be able to do so.
Discussion about the need of a locked cockpit door are useless. One should perhaps be more careful about WHO is allowed to pilot an airliner, but then again it can never be guaranteed that someone perfectly sane, might freak out at the wrong moment.
I always need to laugh when I see airport security taking a bottle of water or Swiss knife away from a pilot! Utterly futile!
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This is absolutely shocking if true that this was an intentional act by a crew member. The security put in place created an awful event which itself was an act of terror (ism)
Someone suggested a changeable code which both crew members select for the day and which overrides any locking action from within but surely any person of the mindset to take himself out and 150 innocent people wouldn't think twice about killing the other crew member to get control of the aircraft!
Since 9/11 all focus has been on aircraft and a multi billion security industry has grown around aviation when there are other modes of transport where equal passenger numbers are carried with zero security
Where do we stop?
The next thing will be retina detection systems to identify crew members of an airline and only allow them access
Someone suggested a changeable code which both crew members select for the day and which overrides any locking action from within but surely any person of the mindset to take himself out and 150 innocent people wouldn't think twice about killing the other crew member to get control of the aircraft!
Since 9/11 all focus has been on aircraft and a multi billion security industry has grown around aviation when there are other modes of transport where equal passenger numbers are carried with zero security
Where do we stop?
The next thing will be retina detection systems to identify crew members of an airline and only allow them access
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Nigeldraft
All this does is shift the problem from pilots with poor intentions to CC. A CC member, locked in the Flt Deck almost has an easier task than a sole pilot to create mischief - especially considering the equipment in the Flt Deck.
All this does is shift the problem from pilots with poor intentions to CC. A CC member, locked in the Flt Deck almost has an easier task than a sole pilot to create mischief - especially considering the equipment in the Flt Deck.
It does not shift anything, Nigel, its been like this for years.
We used to put paper wedges in the door-lock so it would not lock behind us, when flying with certain f/os. The only difference is that people might start talking about the problem, instead of deleting 'troublesome' posts on blogsites and denying it in parliament and the media.
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Phones
It's all economy. And it's been a while since I've see a sat phone on any euro short haul.
Much is being made about phone calls. I don't understand it. What could it possibly do to help the situation?
Much is being made about phone calls. I don't understand it. What could it possibly do to help the situation?
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When the locked door policy was introduced, it was blatantly obvious that something or other disastrous was bound to happen eventually. Fortunately I had retired when locked doors came into use. Had they been introduced before I was due to retire then I might well have been seeking early retirement.
The locked door policy is not only dangerous but signifies a resounding victory for the terrorists.
The locked door policy is not only dangerous but signifies a resounding victory for the terrorists.
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My previous post removed to seems i'm in good company ,as for the question on door lock checking ,with my previous company it was checked every pre-flight by crew and maintenance and we (maintenance) changed the code every 7 days.
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door locks
Would it be prohibitively costly to have ground control of door locks, with a cabin radio communication with a ground station?
And zozo, that's a good question.
And zozo, that's a good question.
Last edited by keithpenny; 26th Mar 2015 at 09:05. Reason: comment added
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we (maintenance) changed the code every 7 days.
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Old cockpit doors policy allowed more than 3000 souls taken away by a few guys with cutters.
I mean, obviously the policy must be improved to cope with suicidal pilots but i can not see how you can have to cope with this without creating new hazards.
I mean it can get really hard to fight human stupidity as it's endless. If you have to protect an airplane from its pilots...then i get lost.
I mean, obviously the policy must be improved to cope with suicidal pilots but i can not see how you can have to cope with this without creating new hazards.
I mean it can get really hard to fight human stupidity as it's endless. If you have to protect an airplane from its pilots...then i get lost.
