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Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France

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Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France

Old 6th Apr 2017, 12:43
  #3521 (permalink)  
 
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Exactly Steve.

I'm wondering also why AvHerald is so keen about 4u9525.... I mean the owner of that site went to Berlin to visit the press conference. Can't remember any other case where he did that.

And it wasn't about fumes....
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 14:05
  #3522 (permalink)  
 
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Simon attended the BEA press conference for the final report on AF447, for example. And he didn't make the trip to Berlin just to hear Gόnter Lubitz talk, but he was in town for a few days anyway - at least that's what he says (4th paragraph in the avherald article).

I can understand that the part about the possibly defective door keypad got his attention, and that he asked BEA for more information about it:
Originally Posted by avherald
6) Has the BEA received information about an occurrence on D-AIPX a few days prior to the crash, that a flight crew managed to lock themselves out of the cockpit while still on the ground and needed maintenance to get back into the cockpit?
7) Did the BEA investigate this occurrence, or did the BFU investigate this occurrence? Is it possible to receive that investigation report?
8) Is it correct, that this occurrence was caused by the failure of the digit x (Editorial note: actual key removed for publication) on the keypad?
9) Is the BEA in possession of the relevant tech log entries and is this occurrence included in this tech log? Was the keypad replaced, or was the defect deferred by maintenance?
And I find their response kind of disappointing:
Originally Posted by BEA
I am well aware that the recent press conference has renew the interest in this event but as far as the BEA is concerned, we have published the final report and have nothing else to add or to comment.
But then again, maybe he shouldn't have submitted a whole catalog of no less than 25 questions about all kinds of weird topics brought up at the press conference, including gems like "Is the BEA aware that there are 4 different versions of the CVR transcript?"
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Old 7th Apr 2017, 12:41
  #3523 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by gearlever
I'm wondering also why AvHerald is so keen about 4u9525.... I mean the owner of that site went to Berlin to visit the press conference. Can't remember any other case where he did that.
No, he did not go to Berlin to be at the press conference, as far as I know that trip was scheduled a very long time before it was known to happen. He apparently decided to visit it as he was there anyway and had the time to do it.

Why AVH is keen on the story he has answered more than clearly. Like many of us the Herald staff seem to find that there are a lot of unanswered questions which need addressing, some of them quite pressing ones such as the keypad issue and generally the conduct of that investigation. That is reason enough to keep looking at it.
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Old 7th Apr 2017, 12:58
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This is a pilot's father trying do defend the family or similar in formation flight with some "investigative" journalist with some non proven suspicions. So far okay but nothing to bring forward the topic itself. Shouldn't we wait for actual news to come up? Apologies but I don't care that much about the FO family's PR.
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Old 7th Apr 2017, 13:58
  #3525 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by AN2 Driver
I don't think what triggered that article was the question of guilt, but the question whether there were things in this investigation which deserve scrutiny because they are either wrong or at least do not live up to the standards of a normal accident investigation.
Originally Posted by AN2 Driver
Like many of us the Herald staff seem to find that there are a lot of unanswered questions which need addressing, some of them quite pressing ones such as the keypad issue and generally the conduct of that investigation. That is reason enough to keep looking at it.
What is it about the conduct of the investigation that makes you repeatedly say that ?

The BEA knew from the start that, because of the particular circumstances of the crash, every word they published would be subject to intense scrutiny and, on the whole, the investigation report reflects that (including a detailed discussion of the CDLS as applicable to the airframe in question)..
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Old 7th Apr 2017, 21:51
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Runs in the family ?

Mental illness ?
Lack of understanding of what goes on and accepting it.
As father, as son we say in Norway.
A total lack of understanding how things work, and how to behave.

This Andreas is a mass murderer and a traitor to his country and his profession.
3 independent investigations say so.
Andreas was a rotten egg, and his Father knew he was a Coo Coo.
His inaction and his sons action has made a mess.

He could have stopped him, he did not.
He should not attack others, for telling the truth.
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Old 13th Apr 2017, 16:08
  #3527 (permalink)  
 
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Question:

Is it possible to turn the ALT SEL knob on A 320 from 38.000 ft to 100 ft within one second?
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Old 13th Apr 2017, 16:27
  #3528 (permalink)  

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Absolutely yes.
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Old 13th Apr 2017, 18:23
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The father is victim too.
He lost his son, and his son went from the perfect son (young pilot from the national airline) to a mass murderer.

He (the father) feel probably guilty about his son's actions, but he has nothing to do with it. And all Germany hates him now, and his wife (the mother) ass well, And all the Lubitz Family.

So, as a father, you can :
1- commit suicide (alone please)
2- deny the truth
3- go insane

He chose the second option...

I feel sorry for him
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Old 13th Apr 2017, 19:04
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He could have stopped him, he did not.
That's a big allegation to make. Do you know of anything we don't, to support you in making it?

Lots of people have - and muddle through with - severe psychiatric problems. It's far from true to say that their nearest and dearest always know what's going on, or how unwell they are.
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 12:57
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We all have problems, and we all hide things.
But you have to be blind as a father is you in this case did not see that your son had big problems and needed serious help and restrictions.
If Your son drops out due to depressions it is Your duty to help him. If not there is something wrong with You.
I think Lubnitz Sr just proved to all that he was not a good and passionate father. He could have helped his son get proper treatment and job on the ground. That is what good Dads do!

And , no, I am not privy to any information You dont have.
But my field of interest happens to be Human Performance in Aviation, or the lack of it.
This person should never have been near an aircraft , never mind flying one!
Some knew this but chose to turn the blind eye, that is a crime.
His father must have known or should have.
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 13:09
  #3532 (permalink)  
 
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BluSdUp

Lubitz father is denying a depression of his son.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaJOTaPK0sc&t=5488s
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 15:58
  #3533 (permalink)  
 
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But my field of interest happens to be Human Performance in Aviation, or the lack of it.
This person should never have been near an aircraft , never mind flying one!
Some knew this but chose to turn the blind eye, that is a crime.
His father must have known or should have.
I don't speak German well enough to appreciate Lubitz senior's perspective. But speaking generally, a very high proportion of people suffer from psychiatric problems at some point in their lives and few go on to kill themselves, let alone anyone else. The lifetime prevalence of major depression is 20-30% depending on which figures you look for.

Now, there are clearly several types of depression (and related illnesses). Certainly some stories about Lubitz suggest that his illness was unusual and should have raised red flags if they are true as reported. However speaking more generally, people who kill themselves often do surprise friends and family. Also, the brighter you are, the more unwell you can get whilst still seemingly holding things together. And even if families know about a person's low mood, it's not uncommon for it to seemingly improve shortly before they decide to kill themselves - presumably due to the newfound sense of purpose.
And , no, I am not privy to any information You dont have.
In that case I'm afraid I find your comments both ignorant and disrespectful - not so much to Lubitz' father about whom I know very little, but with regard to the bereaved relatives of people who have killed themselves in general. The writing isn't always on the wall, and even when it is, it can sometimes only be read in retrospect.

Last edited by abgd; 14th Apr 2017 at 16:29.
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Old 15th Apr 2017, 16:27
  #3534 (permalink)  
 
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I never disputed that Lubitz killed himself and his passengers.
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Old 15th Apr 2017, 19:56
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On the previous flight, the following facts can be noted:

ˆˆ at 7 h 19 min 59, noises like those of the cockpit door opening then closing were recorded and corresponded to when the Captain left the cockpit; the aeroplane was then at cruise speed at flight level FL370 (37,000 ft);
ˆˆ at 7 h 20 min 29, the flight was transferred to the Bordeaux en-route control centre and the crew was instructed to descend to flight level FL350 (35,000 ft), an instruction read back by the co-pilot;
ˆˆ at 7 h 20 min 32, the aircraft was put into a descent to flight level FL350 , selected a few seconds earlier;
ˆˆ at 7 h 20 min 50, the selected altitude decreased to 100 ft for three seconds and then increased to the maximum value of 49,000 ft and stabilized again at 35,000 ft;
ˆˆ at 7 h 21 min 10, the Bordeaux control centre gave the crew the instruction to continue the descent to flight level FL210;
ˆˆ at 7 h 21 min 16, the selected altitude was 21,000 ft;
ˆˆ from 7 h 22 min 27, the selected altitude was 100 ft most of the time and changed several times until it stabilized at 25,000 ft at 7 h
24 min 13;
ˆˆ at 7 h 24 min 15, the buzzer to request access to the cockpit was recorded;
ˆˆ at 7 h 24 min 29, noises like those of the unlocking of the cockpit door then its opening was recorded and corresponded to the Captain’s return to the cockpit;
ˆˆ at 7 h 25 min 32, the flight was transferred to the Barcelona en-route control centre and the crew was instructed to descend to FL170;
ˆˆ at 7 h 26 min 16, the aircraft was put into a descent to its newly cleared flight level and the flight continued normally.
Due to the engaged autopilot modes, the changes in selected altitudes described above did not influence the aircraft descent flight path.
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Old 17th Apr 2017, 00:50
  #3536 (permalink)  
 
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At around 1:33 in that youtube video, Tim Van Beveren, is saying that he believes Lubitz was dialling down the Altitude in the FCU on way to Barcelona, to see the optimal descent point / profile, this was regarding what happen on the previous sector to BCN.

Really clutching at straws these people.
These people are in serious denial regarding what happen.
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Old 18th Apr 2017, 19:55
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ˆˆ at 7 h 20 min 50, the selected altitude decreased to 100 ft for three seconds and then increased to the maximum value of 49,000 ft and stabilized again at 35,000 ft;
ˆˆ at 7 h 21 min 10, the Bordeaux control centre gave the crew the instruction to continue the descent to flight level FL210;
ˆˆ at 7 h 21 min 16, the selected altitude was 21,000 ft;
ˆˆ from 7 h 22 min 27, the selected altitude was 100 ft most of the time and changed several times until it stabilized at 25,000 ft at 7 h 24 min 13;
ˆˆ at 7 h 24 min 15, the buzzer to request access to the cockpit was recorded;
ˆˆ at 7 h 24 min 29, noises like those of the unlocking of the cockpit door then its opening was recorded and corresponded to the Captain’s return to the cockpit;
ˆˆ at 7 h 25 min 32, the flight was transferred to the Barcelona en-route control centre and the crew was instructed to descend to FL170;
ˆˆ at 7 h 26 min 16, the aircraft was put into a descent to its newly cleared flight level and the flight continued normally.
Due to the engaged autopilot modes, the changes in selected altitudes described above did not influence the aircraft descent flight path.
Being a Boeing driver I am confused by the above statement that "the changes did not influence the descent path".

If the descent was initiated to FL 350 and 100 feet selected "in the window" the a/c would continue as commanded towards FL350, but, if the "window" height was increased, as suggested, to 49000 feet, on a Boeing, the A/P would have discontinued the "v-nav" descent and reverted to "Alt Hold". Surely the same would have occurred on an Airbus!

Over to you bus drivers...
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Old 18th Apr 2017, 21:14
  #3538 (permalink)  

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Mode reversion, yes - but to SEL V/S of the moment when the ALT selector goes through the currently passing level / altitude.
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Old 18th Apr 2017, 21:34
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Anyhow, the question is why did Lubitz fumble around with the ALT SEL knob?

Last edited by gearlever; 18th Apr 2017 at 21:46. Reason: Typo
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Old 18th Apr 2017, 21:43
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In ALT mode, you can move your alt bug as much as you want, nothing will happen until you push or pull it.
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