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Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France

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Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France

Old 17th Jul 2015, 11:43
  #3281 (permalink)  
 
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BTW

BTW, for EASA to call this an "incident" IMO grossly underestimates the magnitude of its impact on society and industry....
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Old 17th Jul 2015, 12:01
  #3282 (permalink)  
 
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Once again EASA task force ignoring the problem completely and making recommendations to satisfy the public ie: recommending the politicians solution.

How about a look at how pilots are treated, the ever reducing TC's and the struggle to survive under a mountain of debt, changing contracts and applying FTL's as targets rather than limits.

Physiological evaluations can be beaten/manipulated at first hire interviews and as people get fed up as their life circumstances change or work pressure builds up, the desire to do the undesirable may come at random times after the initial psych evaluation.
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Old 17th Jul 2015, 13:39
  #3283 (permalink)  
 
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Totally agree,the E.C. is completely missing the point in this,was he drunk or on drugs…no,he probably knew the chop was coming and was having a breakdown as a result.His actions were abhorrent but let's not deflect the real issues with bullshit recommendations in the hope that it will all go away.
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Old 17th Jul 2015, 16:34
  #3284 (permalink)  
 
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The Task Force recommendations are:
- The principle of 'two persons in the cockpit at all time' should be maintained.
- Pilots should undergo a psychological evaluation before entering airline service.
- Airlines should run a random drugs and alcohol programme.
- Robust programme for oversight of aeromedical examiners should be established.
- A European aeromedical data repository should be created.
- Pilot support systems should be implemented within airlines.
Looks like most of this is patterned after what U.S. airlines have been doing for quite a while.

The psych eval (remember the Drs. Janus and the rocking chair at Delta?) had gone away at many American carriers for a while but has returned in online form in recent hiring.

The head U.S. Department of Transportation doc has wanted yearly pscyh evals for pilots for some time now and he may get it after the Germanwings 'incident'.
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Old 17th Jul 2015, 21:32
  #3285 (permalink)  
 
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The big picture

Banks, multinationals, corrupt governments, big airlines are run by psychopaths on behalf of their shareholders.

A crew of an airliner flies a plane, these aforementioned individuals fly around with billions, thousands of employees, whole countries.

What about psychological screening for those that run these bodies?

Where is IFALPA?

What about non European airlines flying into Europe?

Is EASA going to do anything about them?

Last edited by Pitch Up Authority; 18th Jul 2015 at 14:09. Reason: typo
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Old 17th Jul 2015, 22:07
  #3286 (permalink)  
 
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What about non European airlines flying into Europe?
Is EASA going to do anything about them?


True. With EU airlines able to sub-charter their flights to cheaper operatives, albeit for short term, EASA rules may not apply to all EU flights with EU nationals as pax. The same will be true for non-EU airlines operating in/out of EU. In the latter case EASA may put their head in the and and say the pax have a choice; in the former the pax may not even know until they board the a/c. Knee jerk reactions often cause many more problems than they solve. e.g. 100ml bottles of liquid in hand luggage. Totally BS useless.
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Old 17th Jul 2015, 22:28
  #3287 (permalink)  
 
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Typical reaction of the doushbags in cologne... they use that incident to flex their muscles and extend the reach of legislation even further into our lives.

None of the proposed points would have prevented the murder Lubitz has committed.

This is the biggest joke of all:

- Pilot support systems should be implemented within airlines.
"should"....

I can already see the MOLs of the airline world taking care of a pilots support program - that will consist of an axe, no doubt about that.
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Old 18th Jul 2015, 01:01
  #3288 (permalink)  
 
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Dr. Janus and the Rocking Chair

Airbubba: "The psych eval (remember the Drs. Janus and the rocking chair at Delta?)"
That was very entertaining!
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Old 18th Jul 2015, 01:58
  #3289 (permalink)  
 
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His dudeness:


I can already see the MOLs of the airline world taking care of a pilots support program - that will consist of an axe, no doubt about that.
Well...perhaps. But, in the EU, the US, Canada, and OZ, the unions will short circuit your concern.
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Old 19th Jul 2015, 15:11
  #3290 (permalink)  
 
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Not-so-random drink and drugs testing would be welcome imho.
And this alleged mass-murder only serves to demonstrate that controls over flight crew are still not yet adequate to protect the innocent travelling public. Who have a right, when they compulsorally place their trust and lives into the hands of two or three unknown, and unseen individuals, to expect that those individuals are Fit to Fly. In every sense.
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Old 19th Jul 2015, 18:16
  #3291 (permalink)  
 
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ChissayLuke:

And this alleged mass-murder only serves to demonstrate that controls over flight crew are still not yet adequate to protect the innocent travelling public. Who have a right, when they compulsorally place their trust and lives into the hands of two or three unknown, and unseen individuals, to expect that those individuals are Fit to Fly. In every sense.
It will never be 100%, anymore than trains, automobiles, and ships.
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Old 19th Jul 2015, 18:27
  #3292 (permalink)  
 
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I don't recall saying that it ever would be.
But it is a sound aspiration, and there is a burden of duty of care upon 'regulators', to ensure that it is as near as it can be.
It is my view that the travelling public has a right to expect such.
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Old 19th Jul 2015, 19:14
  #3293 (permalink)  
 
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I perceive the bigger danger here is not that we miss existing psychological conditions that affect pilots. Instead, my opinion (FWIW) is that increasing the pressure on pilots, and the intrusion of monitoring into private lives will drive some pilots into conditions that were NOT existing.

I agree absolutely that there needs to be a wholesale improvement in pilot support systems, and that pilots should be able to seek appropriate support and/or treatment for mental health issues. Just the same way as it is currently possible for physical health issues.

I just can't see that moving further down the road of intrusive monitoring linked to career-guilotines is going to achieve the intended result of reducing what is already a VERY rare situation.
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Old 19th Jul 2015, 23:01
  #3294 (permalink)  
 
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ChissyLuke:

I don't recall saying that it ever would be.
Well, perhaps I am misreading your previous statement:

...when they compulsorally place their trust and lives into the hands of two or three unknown, and unseen individuals, to expect that those individuals are Fit to Fly. In every sense. ...
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Old 19th Jul 2015, 23:51
  #3295 (permalink)  
 
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Nonsense

ChissayLuke

The number of times pilots lay the finger on safety related issues within the industry at the risk of loosing their livelihood is a reality.

It is the regulating authorities that look the other side.EASA has started a witch-hunt.

As a passenger do not expect that when you pay 600 Euro to travel to the other side of the world or 35 Euro to go from Paris to Rome that nobody in the system is getting exploited.

If you accept this as normal then you have to accept the consequences as well.

The solution is simple. A slowdown of growth in the aviation industry and a complete revision of pilot training. This implies to keep it out of the hands of commercial enterprises.

Last edited by Pitch Up Authority; 19th Jul 2015 at 23:53. Reason: rephrased for clarity
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Old 20th Jul 2015, 02:28
  #3296 (permalink)  
 
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Pitch up authority well said.
Funny how jo public wants the cheapest but wants 5 star service.
When airfares were "well" priced maintenance was exemplary pilots well trained & not of a psychotic nature. ( yes some exceptions) so if Jo public wants/expects someone " driving" he can trust he better be prepared to pay for it!
Oh as for the 2 man rule. Well that has made it easier for those that wish us harm to get in on the act so to speak.
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Old 20th Jul 2015, 03:08
  #3297 (permalink)  
 
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Another truth

The suicide rate amongst doctors and in particular; dentist, psychiatrists and anestesist is amongst the highest of any profession.

The annual death rate due to medical malpractice outnumbers by far the loss of lives due to a crash.

And the shooting of MH17 has more to do with the fact that the authorities did not do their job properly by either closing down the whole airspace or issue an overflight ban to their respective airlines.
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Old 20th Jul 2015, 06:22
  #3298 (permalink)  
 
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I'm glad to have provoked debate.
I stand by my oroginal comments.
And would respectfully point out that safety of the flying public has nothing to do with expecting 5 star service, or the price paid.
References to other suicides are irrelevant. They don't tender to murder many innocents.
If you really are real pilots, and really hold those views, perhaps you'd be kind enough to give full reference.
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Old 20th Jul 2015, 08:23
  #3299 (permalink)  
 
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My psychiatrist neighbor told me that the Germanwings F/O most likely was suffering from some sort of 'narcissistic disturbance' (= best translation I could think of from 'narzistische Störung').

Looking at descriptions about this diagnosis, I can think of a bunch of people who in my opinion might be suffering from this. These people are steering cars, holding scalpels in their hands or even managing big corporations.
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Old 20th Jul 2015, 08:40
  #3300 (permalink)  
 
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He was classified as "unable to work" (not just "unfit to fly") by some of his doctors for the day of the crash but he ignored it and did not tell his employer. He took strong psycho drugs against his depressions, drugs that are only available by doctor's permit and might change your mind up to making you agressive against yourself or others.
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