Airbus A320 crashed in Southern France
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So, how would you assess the risk from a qualified pilot, serving as an FA while waiting for an FO slot?
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BEA news March 31st, 2015
Accident to the Airbus A320-211 registered D-AIPX, flight GWI18G, on 24 March 2015
INFORMATION ON 31 MARCH 2015
The Safety Investigation is continuing. It will be focused on:
INFORMATION ON 31 MARCH 2015
The Safety Investigation is continuing. It will be focused on:
- Describing more precisely, from the technical perspective, the history of the flight. This work will be based on detailed analysis of data from the CVR as well as analysis of any flight parameter data that may be available.
- Studying the systemic weaknesses might possibily have led to this aviation disaster or other similar events. Within this context, the Safety Investigation will be oriented towards the cockpit door locking system logic and cockpit access and exit procedures, as well as the criteria and procedures applied to detect specific psychological profiles
Last edited by A0283; 31st Mar 2015 at 15:21.
What hope is there that FDR data will be recovered, or the various bits and pieces that seem to be missing at the moment will be found and usable?
Granted, this was a high kinetic energy crash, but I was under the impression that CVR's and FDR's are very robust bits of kit. Yes, saw the deformation of the CVR body. As most crashes in recent history have had FDR's survive some serious destruction of an airframe, it is disappointing to learn that now and again the black box itself doesn't survive in usable form.
IIRC, the recent freighter crash in Bagram fell afoul of a form of that, in terms of the area where the CVR/FDR are located being where the internal damage leading to the crash began, with the signal being lost shortly after rotation. The boxes themselves seemed to have survived that horrific crash.
Granted, this was a high kinetic energy crash, but I was under the impression that CVR's and FDR's are very robust bits of kit. Yes, saw the deformation of the CVR body. As most crashes in recent history have had FDR's survive some serious destruction of an airframe, it is disappointing to learn that now and again the black box itself doesn't survive in usable form.
IIRC, the recent freighter crash in Bagram fell afoul of a form of that, in terms of the area where the CVR/FDR are located being where the internal damage leading to the crash began, with the signal being lost shortly after rotation. The boxes themselves seemed to have survived that horrific crash.
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What hope is there that FDR data will be recovered, or the various bits and pieces that seem to be missing at the moment will be found and usable?
it is disappointing to learn that now and again the black box itself doesn't survive in usable form.
I would guess that armouring a recorder so that it's guaranteed to survive such an impact would result in its weight being prohibitive. It's lucky that the CVR survived relatively intact.
AFAIK nowhere has it been reported that the FDR has likely been destroyed.
My impression is that the memory module became detached from its casing on impact and therefore is still present somewhere in the vicinity. It may only be a matter of continuing the search until it turns up.
If anyone can clarify?
My impression is that the memory module became detached from its casing on impact and therefore is still present somewhere in the vicinity. It may only be a matter of continuing the search until it turns up.
If anyone can clarify?
I haven't yet seen the recovered shell of the FDR; so two possibilities for the storage media and data capsule:
Description of debris from 1956 TCA CFIT at Mt Slesse:
http://forums.clubtread.com/27-briti...ris-field.html
- Data capsule intact with or without outer cover on -- being cylindrical it could be a long way downhill if not trapped in debris. Rainfall can move it a long ways and even bury it in sediment. In the mountains heavy rain and debris flows are ever present. Snowmelt also triggers debris flows. It may be necessary to vacuum dredge the streambed and run it through a screen. All this in difficult terrain.
- Capsule broken and storage media scattered -- the entire hillside area will have to be treated like an archaeological dig. Labor intensive, time consuming and distressing because of fragmentary human remains
Description of debris from 1956 TCA CFIT at Mt Slesse:
http://forums.clubtread.com/27-briti...ris-field.html
Last edited by RatherBeFlying; 31st Mar 2015 at 16:33.
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According to what the authorities have announced, they seem to be looking for a large orange object, not a card or other component.
Now they have built a road, access to the site is easier.
Now they have built a road, access to the site is easier.
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I believe the "FDR case found, memory/storage missing" came at the 3 leaders brief, not from the BEA or prosecutor? I also saw somewhere reference to maybe this being the QAR?
If both the above have any truth, one can see the confusion?
Spec I have just read equates to 270K decelerating over 450cm. Given a 350K impact, I have no idea how much the tail would have slowed by the time the FDR area reached the surface?
If both the above have any truth, one can see the confusion?
Spec I have just read equates to 270K decelerating over 450cm. Given a 350K impact, I have no idea how much the tail would have slowed by the time the FDR area reached the surface?
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I'm sure there will be a lot of pilots taking anti-depressants on the fly that will be getting worried right now. The initial medical examination should include a review of GP notes to see if there has been a previous history of psychiatric illness.
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Crash Survivable Memory Unit (CSMU)
@oldoberon, 31 Mar 2015 at 09:37 --
There are a variety of recorder models and manufacturers.
The FDR in the AF 447 accident was a Honeywell 4700. The spec:
http://www51.honeywell.com/aero/comm...28SSFDR%29.pdf
"The SSFDR's crash survivable memory unit (CSMU) provides for complete data recovery when subjected to the crash conditions stipulated in ED-55 and ED-56a: Impact Shock 3400G, 6.5 milliseconds . . . "
The BEA final report on AF 447 states that "For the FDR, only the protected unit (CSMU or memory module) was present. The CVR was complete."
The EUROCAE and RTCA documents (e.g., ED-55) that have the detailed requirements are on pay-per-view sites.
A few popular press articles (not specs):
BBC NEWS | Special Reports | Flight recorders: clues to air crashes
AutoSpeed - Inside the Black Box
There are a variety of recorder models and manufacturers.
The FDR in the AF 447 accident was a Honeywell 4700. The spec:
http://www51.honeywell.com/aero/comm...28SSFDR%29.pdf
"The SSFDR's crash survivable memory unit (CSMU) provides for complete data recovery when subjected to the crash conditions stipulated in ED-55 and ED-56a: Impact Shock 3400G, 6.5 milliseconds . . . "
The BEA final report on AF 447 states that "For the FDR, only the protected unit (CSMU or memory module) was present. The CVR was complete."
The EUROCAE and RTCA documents (e.g., ED-55) that have the detailed requirements are on pay-per-view sites.
A few popular press articles (not specs):
BBC NEWS | Special Reports | Flight recorders: clues to air crashes
AutoSpeed - Inside the Black Box
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Cabin Video recovered
According to latest news from the Bild Zeitung website, their journalists and those of Paris Match could view a video from a memory card, recovered by rescuers, and probably taken with a cell phone during the last seconds of the fatal flight. The contents would be consistent with the declarations of the Marseilles prosecutor about the pax realising their fate, "My God heard in several languages, and the Captain hitting the cockpit door with some metallic tool.
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From the Grauniad:
"Five days after the Germanwings co-pilot Andreas Lubitz seemingly crashed his plane into the French Alps, killing all 150 people on board, there was a growing backlash in Germany on Saturday against what many in his hometown feel is a tasteless rush to judgment.
Residents say French investigators have been too hasty in blaming Lubitz for the crash, and that the full facts about his medical condition and apparent long history of depression are not yet known.
Pilots’ organisations have also said that the conclusion of French air accident experts that Lubitz deliberately locked the captain out of the cabin, then calmly steered flight 4U9525 into a mountain, is premature."
Andreas Lubitz's hometown condemns rush to judge Germanwings co-pilot | World news | The Guardian
"Five days after the Germanwings co-pilot Andreas Lubitz seemingly crashed his plane into the French Alps, killing all 150 people on board, there was a growing backlash in Germany on Saturday against what many in his hometown feel is a tasteless rush to judgment.
Residents say French investigators have been too hasty in blaming Lubitz for the crash, and that the full facts about his medical condition and apparent long history of depression are not yet known.
Pilots’ organisations have also said that the conclusion of French air accident experts that Lubitz deliberately locked the captain out of the cabin, then calmly steered flight 4U9525 into a mountain, is premature."
Andreas Lubitz's hometown condemns rush to judge Germanwings co-pilot | World news | The Guardian
Last edited by Carjockey; 31st Mar 2015 at 17:50.
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According to CNN, a video from inside the plane with the final moments before the crash has been found!
The content has been described in a couple of publications, jst been posted. I belive they mentioned Bild and Match.
Apparently it comes from one of the phone's memory card, found at the crash site.
LE: for those who can read German
http://www.bild.de/news/ausland/flug...6768.bild.html
The content has been described in a couple of publications, jst been posted. I belive they mentioned Bild and Match.
Apparently it comes from one of the phone's memory card, found at the crash site.
LE: for those who can read German
http://www.bild.de/news/ausland/flug...6768.bild.html
Last edited by skytrax; 31st Mar 2015 at 18:03.
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How come that something apparently recovered from the crash site has come into the public domain?
Wouldn't you expect all such evidence to be impounded by the investigators?
Wouldn't you expect all such evidence to be impounded by the investigators?
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G-CPTN:
Yes, I would expect (and hope for) that, but I would also expect that a "French military official" would not feed the NYT ... and that apparently happened. Leaks like that are IMO not helpful to the job that the crash investigators are trying to do in a methodical way.
@SevereClear: I detect a bit of "filling in the blanks" in the breaking news story that you linked to. Thanks for the link anyway. If one ever needed an illustration of "if it bleeds it leads" in journalism, this one seems a textbook case.
Yes, I would expect (and hope for) that, but I would also expect that a "French military official" would not feed the NYT ... and that apparently happened. Leaks like that are IMO not helpful to the job that the crash investigators are trying to do in a methodical way.
@SevereClear: I detect a bit of "filling in the blanks" in the breaking news story that you linked to. Thanks for the link anyway. If one ever needed an illustration of "if it bleeds it leads" in journalism, this one seems a textbook case.
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Somehow does not surprise me at all.
I think we've already established that this investigation is as leaky as one of dear Liza's buckets, and attempts to stem the gush of information are about as effective as the hapless Henry.
I think we've already established that this investigation is as leaky as one of dear Liza's buckets, and attempts to stem the gush of information are about as effective as the hapless Henry.
Last edited by papershuffler; 31st Mar 2015 at 18:46.
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Interesting that the claim is made that the FO was wearing an O2 mask.