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Turkish A330 incident, Kathmandu

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Turkish A330 incident, Kathmandu

Old 6th Mar 2015, 11:10
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Old 6th Mar 2015, 12:49
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Andrasz...you may note that indeed I did NOT advocate PILOTS shifting departure times, an authority not afforded the pilot at most airlines..operational control (delaying/cancelling flights) rests on the folks in ops...diverting once in flight however, is the prerogative of the Commander..
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Old 6th Mar 2015, 13:04
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Would be interested to see if Turkish were certificated for this sort of approach. We had issues at my company where our aircraft were capable and we were trained but to operate to lowest minima we required Airbus certification for each aircraft to carry out this approach at a cost of circa 100,000 per aircraft.
Don't know what model you operated but the 330 should "come out of the box" certified for RNAP AR approaches to 0.10. The other part of the equation is for the operator to get approval from its certificate holder to fly such approaches. That would including the requisite training of the flight crews, ground school and simulator and a specified number of 0.30 approaches on the line before lower RNP values can be used.

I can't speak for Turkey, but in the U.S. RNP AR approaches are not in the database until the approval process is completed.
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Old 6th Mar 2015, 13:59
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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Ironbut57, emphasis noted. My post was primarily to underscore the need for scheduling to understand operational constraints and flight operations to understand commercial needs. Without this understanding, sooner or later there will be a bunch of unemployed aviation professionals hitting the job market.
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Old 6th Mar 2015, 14:29
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Am I the only one concerned about the 2 hour hold ?
Rather divert before you end up with insufficient fuel and having to land in bad conditions.
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Old 6th Mar 2015, 14:40
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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Geek

How do you know how much fuel they had left?

Agreed a timely decision to divert rather than being forced to make an approach under less than ideal conditions, is the way forward. However we simply do not know how much they had remaining, for all we know they could have had enough to return to IST

Last edited by PT6Driver; 6th Mar 2015 at 14:41. Reason: spelling
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Old 6th Mar 2015, 16:26
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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RNP certified?

Blackpud

Is the 330 approved to do RNP AR approaches ?

The aircraft is probably certified. However, as far as I am aware Turkey has not given approval to any carriers as yet, and no crew training has been done.

Anyone know if that has changed? Load of crews still do GNS approaches, even though no training has been given, and no requirements specified. They seem to regard the presence of an approach plate to be authorisation.
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Old 6th Mar 2015, 20:35
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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the need for pro's

In these times, the aviation industry is in need of professionals who can see accurately by merely looking at pictures pinpointing the culprit. Shooting down a colleague , alleging by assumption that "the presence of a chart" is that the AUTHORIZATION REQUIRED has been fulfilled by an unknown colleague, surely he is more valuable/professional than this unknown Captain. ................ I am sorry but I just have zero tolerance for crap like this, no matter what nationality the pilot is. I just hate pilot bashing full stop. It just happens too often in my opinion.
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Old 6th Mar 2015, 23:01
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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silvertate:


The aircraft is probably certified. However, as far as I am aware Turkey has not given approval to any carriers as yet, and no crew training has been done.

Anyone know if that has changed? Load of crews still do GNS approaches, even though no training has been given, and no requirements specified. They seem to regard the presence of an approach plate to be authorisation.
If management and the Turkish aviation authority were doing their job, and I have no basis to conclude otherwise, the RNP AR approach would not have been in the database unless the crew were qualified.

Unless someone has some hard information to the contrary, the presumption should be the crew was qualified and legal to fly the RNP AR approach.
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Old 6th Mar 2015, 23:10
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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That's a big presumption, we have approaches in our data base which we aren't certified to use therefore we don't fly them.

Just because the approach is there it does't necessarily mean that that the crew are qualified to use it.
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Old 7th Mar 2015, 00:54
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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Metro and Ecam:

I presume you are not operating under FAA rules.

Probably not ICAO rules, either, in this respect. But, ICAO is weak.
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Old 7th Mar 2015, 01:08
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Ancient Geek View Post
Am I the only one concerned about the 2 hour hold ?
Rather divert before you end up with insufficient fuel and having to land in bad conditions.
Maybe they had lots of fuel. You are just making an assumption.
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Old 7th Mar 2015, 01:44
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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If I was a senior manager at Turkish Airlines I would be letting it be known that the 330 had enough fuel to fly another 10 hours when it landed . If it did !
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Old 7th Mar 2015, 05:03
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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Turkish Airlines and another carrier in Turkey both have the approval for RNAV AR.
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Old 7th Mar 2015, 05:36
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Our crews are qualified, we have the Airbus certified equipment to fly RNP APP's but the the paperwork has been stalled at our CAA in tray for the last few months.
Very frustrating
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Old 7th Mar 2015, 08:14
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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Alright but what does that have to do with Turkish Airlines if the company you mention is another airline?
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Old 7th Mar 2015, 08:27
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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Type IV . He is defending himself against someone who implies that the AR approach cannot be in the database unless it was approved .
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Old 7th Mar 2015, 09:05
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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My apologies, I understood it as if another company didn't have the full approval that also meant that Turkish Airlines probably wouldn't either due to the presumptive and slanderous nature of most Turkish Airlines related threads.
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Old 7th Mar 2015, 14:33
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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Turkish Airlines has the approval for this approach , the aircraft and the crew were certified and they had the necessary sim training for this app to ktm
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Old 7th Mar 2015, 14:33
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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East West | Travel Blog by Kunda Dixit | Nepali Times | nepalitimes.com Blog Archive Disaster averted, unfolding disaster

Interesting read.

NB. I was not one of those making comments!
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