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Widerøe w/35 pax in nose dive,recovered at 82 feet, suppressed by airline for 4 years

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Widerøe w/35 pax in nose dive,recovered at 82 feet, suppressed by airline for 4 years

Old 26th Feb 2015, 18:23
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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EVERY time an aircraft takes to the air "the aircraft and it occupants" are in "grave peril." In general, an incident becomes "incredibly serious" if variables under the control of the aircrew or the airline are causal to the incident. In this case, it seems that variables not under the control of the aircrew almost caused a serious accident, but swift and effective action by the aircrew prevented a serious accident. The result was an "E Ticket Ride" for the passengers, but they all walked away, and probably most with a smile.
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Old 28th Feb 2015, 18:48
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I don't like the title. "Nosedive"? That's a journo term like "loop the loop". "Suppressed"? That's loaded, wouldn't you say?

How about , "Height loss on finals, turbulence suspected". Or emphasize the reporting system errors if that is your point.

This site tries to cater to professionals. It often falls short, but let's keep trying, shall we?
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Old 28th Feb 2015, 19:20
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If the figures quoted are anywhere near correct I think there are bigger fish to fry than the "terminology" used.
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Old 1st Mar 2015, 14:28
  #24 (permalink)  
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A story overblown to generate sensation and sell newspapers if you ask me .
Svolvaer Is on the Lofoten , one of the most difficult terrain/weather combination in northern Europe , I,ve been there a few times . Rotors produced by the terrain can do funny things to you . I believe a twin otter rolled on its back at Vaeroy ( next island) during an approach and that resulted in the airport being abandoned if my memory is correct ,
WF , just like other airlines operating in the Arctic may have higher incident rates than others but considering the environment they fly in , they are doing a pretty good job,
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Old 8th Jul 2015, 15:07
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Near crash, pilot error by a captain who tried to cover his footsteps in the aftermath, the souls onboard were saved by the quick thinking and strong arms of the FO, according to Avherald. The Norwegian AIBN still calls it an "incident", unwilling to label it as a serious incident.

Incident: Wideroe DH8A at Svolvaer on Dec 2nd 2010, aircraft rapidly descended on base turn, recovered at 25 meters AGL

On Jun 5th 2015 a source contacted The Aviation Herald indicating, that the aircraft had entered a full stall on a visual approach to Svolvaer's runway 19 with the captain being pilot flying. The aircraft was turning base when the airspeed sharply dropped and the stickshaker activated. The engines were accelerated to maximum power available, the pitch continued to increase until the aircraft entered full stall however and the captain basically froze. The first officer took control of the aircraft, pushed the nose down, managed to recover the aircraft from the stall and pulling +2.7G arrested the descent at 25 meters AGL. The aircraft subsequently diverted for a safe landing. Following the occurrence the captain provided a report about the occurrence to the safety department of the airline which prompted both engines to undergo checks for overtorque before the aircraft was returned to service. Our source said: "The captain drastically understated the severity of the situation. The AIBN cannot investigate what it does not know." The first officer left the company and joined another airline.
Now we're talking. Sounds like a scene almost identical to the Colgan Air crash (adverse weather conditions/icing, stall, captain pitches up)

Last edited by aerobus123; 8th Jul 2015 at 15:24.
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Old 8th Jul 2015, 16:51
  #26 (permalink)  

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The conjunction of the above two posts nicely sums up life in R&N.
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Old 8th Jul 2015, 17:50
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.
Widerøe pilots are well trained and experienced.
I doubt that they were stalled, windshear yes, certainly possible in between high mountains.

You can easily get a windshear-stall in bad windshear. Not so common in faster aircraft, but well known in gliding, where it is known as the 'clutching hand'.

Mind you I have seen a few raw jet f/os wondering why the aircraft plonked down so hard, when everything looked fine. - They did not see the impending low-level windshear that can reduce lift even in a jet. Not quite a stall, but certainly enough to drop you a hundred meters or so.

S
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Old 9th Jul 2015, 04:04
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A windshear stall has little resemblance to the usual training/certification stall with a 1 kt / second deceleration.

A 34 kt loss over 2 seconds is a very different beast.
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Old 9th Jul 2015, 14:08
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One would expect Widerøe pilots, who operate in such windshear-prone conditions to be better prepared.
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Old 9th Jul 2015, 14:37
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Cover up

Disgusting cover up I suspect knowing the Norwegian culture. I had more strange handshakes when I was up there than you could ever imagine. Everyone seemed to be at it...!
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Old 9th Jul 2015, 15:22
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One would expect Widerøe pilots, who operate in such windshear-prone conditions to be better prepared.
They are. Widerøde operates in very challenging conditions in between high mountains.

Windshear, turbulence and mountain rotors are a real threat, and all you can do when **** happens is doing the best you can to recover.

Some times the odds are not on your side.
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Old 9th Jul 2015, 15:36
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Norwegian culture
Is among the best in the western world.
Been turned down by Norwegian?
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Old 9th Jul 2015, 15:36
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"doing the best you can to recover."

Are you saying, then, that pulling back on the stick in a turn with a stall warning is 'the best you can do"?
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Old 9th Jul 2015, 20:20
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Are you saying, then, that pulling back on the stick in a turn with a stall warning is 'the best you can do"?
Having flown turboprops in northern norway yeah i would have pulled the stick.
In their case they didn't have a lot of altitude to play around with.
Seems like they did the right thing as we can discuss this as an incident not an accident.
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Old 9th Jul 2015, 21:14
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Thank the Lord for co-pilots.
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Old 10th Jul 2015, 01:51
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Awesome, FO!

I would like to shake the hand of that FO. Low and slow, and the stall warning going off, you're pilot monitoring. It takes a lot of guts to push the nose down and firewall the engines.
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Old 10th Jul 2015, 17:50
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I would like to shake the hand of that FO. Low and slow, and the stall warning going off, you're pilot monitoring. It takes a lot of guts to push the nose down and firewall the engines.
I have only read the preliminary report.
Back then it was not clear that they were stalled.
Low level wind shear or mountain rotor was mentioned as a possible cause.
I guess I should read the final report before posting here.
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Old 10th Jul 2015, 18:45
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Dear Mr Inop

There is an in-built assumption (often not achieved) that those who post on a thread have made an attempt to read that thread - eg post 25 (and Av Herald - recommended, indeed)?
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Old 10th Jul 2015, 23:43
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Dear Mr Groucho

Is there an in-built assumption at those who read press reports should regard them as reliable sources of information?
Is there an in-built assumption that an un-named "source" who talks to newspapers is reliable?
Is there an in-built assumption that an un-named "source" who talks to newspapers hasn't got a grudge against someone?
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Old 11th Jul 2015, 07:15
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Dear Mr Bronx

No (personally) to all three, but none of those are of course relevant to my post.

I'm sure you, of all people, would judge Av Herald (referred to in post 25, and recommended) as 'reliable'?

Oh, then there's a thing called an FDR with which I know you are familiar.

If I may quote Av Herald, regarding the flight's 'raw data':

"The occurrence came to light on Feb 21st 2015 by a report of Norwegian newspaper Nordlys, who reported the aircraft lost height on approach to Svolvaer and was recovered at 27 meters over the sea (88 feet AGL). The article presented a number of graphs, that were described to be based on the read out of the flight data recorder."

Later

"Description, time, all labels and data matched the events at Svolvaer as described to us by our source."

Just in case you and the rest of the readers have not read it, look at Incident: Wideroe DH8A at Svolvaer on Dec 2nd 2010, aircraft rapidly descended on base turn, recovered at 25 meters AGL

With acknowledgements to Simon (a thorough and persistent piece of work).

- and (personally perceived, of course) congratulations to the F/O

As always, of course, we must await the full enquiry which thankfully now is to take place. Do you concur that this appears 'overdue'?
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