TransAsia in the water?
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The hero status in most aircraft accidents is short lived. Once the facts come in it usually is taken back. The press will always find a way to make a story front page as long as it can.
de minimus non curat lex
All 71 ATR pilots to have skills test
Post 7 FEB @0037
An earlier post alleged that for two weeks,(5 Feb0749 post) the simulator had broken rudder pedals, and yet OPC/LPC s continued to be conducted by this company.
Certain Operators refused.......quite rightly.
Those who had this "pony express" mentality have some serious questions to answer? Are they fit and proper people in their current roles?
I can appreciate that pressure was brought to bear on the crews, but clearly the TREs presiding clearly have no backbone and should consider their positions, together with those higher up the food chain who were aware of the simulator's condition.
Has the culture a lot to do with this.
An earlier post alleged that for two weeks,(5 Feb0749 post) the simulator had broken rudder pedals, and yet OPC/LPC s continued to be conducted by this company.
Certain Operators refused.......quite rightly.
Those who had this "pony express" mentality have some serious questions to answer? Are they fit and proper people in their current roles?
I can appreciate that pressure was brought to bear on the crews, but clearly the TREs presiding clearly have no backbone and should consider their positions, together with those higher up the food chain who were aware of the simulator's condition.
Has the culture a lot to do with this.
Last edited by parkfell; 7th Feb 2015 at 09:45. Reason: Syntax etc
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ATR climb perf after engine failure at take off
I had the interesting incident as the handling pilot to tackle a real engine failure on an older version ATR42 at MTOW and from a short field.I was eaxpecting the engine failure due to some technical anomalies and smoke from previous sector whose warnings my Cpt did not heed.Due to Take Off inhibit mode the Engine Failure Master warning didn't come on till 400 ft (as was the norm).Due to the fact I had practiced simulated eng failure training during base training with the same skipper a few weeks before and though I was flying with a TRE..I credit the skipper with the calm demeanour and confidence he inspired me in behaving like a model crew member rather than investigative/invigilating TRI/TRE and one of the gratest compliments he had paid me whilst sorting the Failure was how relaxed I was and that there was no need to rush anything.We were practically having a light hearted situation of it and the flight proceeded after securing the plane and completeing all the checklist to land beautifully just in time before the aerodrome closed. The climb performance wasn't out of the ordinary but it was not poor either.Important thing is we identified the proper engine and shut it down which automatically feathers the shut engine.Even with a full load of passengers and 4 crew (one cabin crew under taining) we walked away from it chin high.Could it have been a better managed flight? Sure...there was an International Airport within 20 minutes of engine failure and could have proceeded there for a better risk management and beter Emergency response..but because we had a smoke issue (Aircon)..it was decided to land ASAP. I had at the time skipped going for a sim refresh after years away from flying but the base training I had more than made up for not doing sim training.Stalls Engine failures Non standard landing config etc..we covered the lot.Whoever says the ATR is a sissy machine when it comes to climb performance after engine failure hasn't flown it.The dash 500 and 600 series are even more superior.This was simply a case of wrong engine identification and shtdown..even if it was a Q400 or a Saab 2000 he consequences would have been the same...forced landing!
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Transcript of crew communication
Transcript Of TransAsia Pilot's Conversation With ATC Before Crash Deemed Authentic By Authorities
Transcript Of TransAsia Pilot's Conversation With ATC Before Crash Deemed Authentic By Authorities
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Instead of the Authorities going mad and chopping everyone in the skill test, why not see the crews are trained in the first instance? However, try as we may we will never eliminate human error, never. We all now have a fair idea what happened. The question is why?? Basics not being addressed??
Was about to inquire as to the experience requirements of crews there but there seemed to be a lot of total hours, in that cockpit.
Why not just order more detailed retraining in a calm and relaxed manner?
As to auto feather.
Why is the propeller programmed to feather with somewhere near 50% power available? That little bit of power, would money in the bank, during EFATO. Goodness me, even a burning engine (underslung) is giving power, so we should use it as long as we dare. Yes I am aware, uncontained fire must be dealt with pretty quick.
Was about to inquire as to the experience requirements of crews there but there seemed to be a lot of total hours, in that cockpit.
Why not just order more detailed retraining in a calm and relaxed manner?
As to auto feather.
Why is the propeller programmed to feather with somewhere near 50% power available? That little bit of power, would money in the bank, during EFATO. Goodness me, even a burning engine (underslung) is giving power, so we should use it as long as we dare. Yes I am aware, uncontained fire must be dealt with pretty quick.
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there will be something in the aircraft design which means it needs to do it to fulfil some design requirement.
Possibly the Vmca 1.1 requirement. If they didn't do it the Vr possibly would go through the roof and it would need 747 lengths of runway to operate and much meatier gear. Either that or a 747 sized rudder.
Possibly the Vmca 1.1 requirement. If they didn't do it the Vr possibly would go through the roof and it would need 747 lengths of runway to operate and much meatier gear. Either that or a 747 sized rudder.
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Why is the propeller programmed to feather with somewhere near 50% power available?
In February 1980, a fully laden King Air took off from Sydney (Kingsford Smith) Airport , had EFTO and soon after crashed killing all on board.
There was found to be fuel contamination and that the pilot (single pilot ops)
had used a company prescribed reduced power take-off. The investigation also revealed that the pilot had on a number of occasions on licence renewal flights, initially called the wrong engine when confronted with a simulated engine failure. Some flying schools used to teach "pressure left - failure right". Others, believing it might obviate a dyslexic response, taught "feather the free foot".
There was found to be fuel contamination and that the pilot (single pilot ops)
had used a company prescribed reduced power take-off. The investigation also revealed that the pilot had on a number of occasions on licence renewal flights, initially called the wrong engine when confronted with a simulated engine failure. Some flying schools used to teach "pressure left - failure right". Others, believing it might obviate a dyslexic response, taught "feather the free foot".
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EFATO diagnostics on ATR types
The one instrument that frequently gets ignored during engine failure is the balance indicator (slip ball).Its right under the PFD.If the Plane was on AP..the rudder trim indicator would slide toward the live engine as a clue until it couldn't carry itself and disengage.5 degree bank ito the live engine highly recommended on the ATR or similar turbo prob to minimise trim drag and fly away at Vmlb0 (white bug in non icing) after climb sequence.
One good thing not to do after pulling the identified engine PL to idle is to keep pulling the CL past FTR and into SO.its your last chance to assess which IS the good engine and if you have thus far pulled the wrong engine levers to promptly correct after consultation and conformation with the other crew after properly feeling the flight path symmetry and cross checking engine and bleed data (eng bleed of the live engine will auto close to conserve power toward providing torque.Check ITT and Fuel flow readings..they can't be the same!The clues are there...it just requires composure and slow but deliberate identification...whilst mnitoring the flight path and flying the right speed by the handling pilot.Aviate.Then investigate..then communicate intentions and navigate as required by the demands of the engine failure be it via engine out SiD or visual circuit.Then communicate again to all concerned in the cabin and ATC for the Approach and landing.
One good thing not to do after pulling the identified engine PL to idle is to keep pulling the CL past FTR and into SO.its your last chance to assess which IS the good engine and if you have thus far pulled the wrong engine levers to promptly correct after consultation and conformation with the other crew after properly feeling the flight path symmetry and cross checking engine and bleed data (eng bleed of the live engine will auto close to conserve power toward providing torque.Check ITT and Fuel flow readings..they can't be the same!The clues are there...it just requires composure and slow but deliberate identification...whilst mnitoring the flight path and flying the right speed by the handling pilot.Aviate.Then investigate..then communicate intentions and navigate as required by the demands of the engine failure be it via engine out SiD or visual circuit.Then communicate again to all concerned in the cabin and ATC for the Approach and landing.
N4790P
Post 7 FEB @0037
A earlier post alleged that for two weeks, the simulator had broken rudder pedals, and yet OPC/LPC s continued to be conducted by this company.
Certain Operators refused.......quite rightly.
Those who had this "pony express" mentality have some serious questions to answer? Are they fit and proper people in their current roles?
I can appreciate that pressure was brought to bear on the crews, but clearly the TREs presiding clearly have no backbone and should consider their positions, together with those higher up the food chain who were aware of the simulator's condition.
A earlier post alleged that for two weeks, the simulator had broken rudder pedals, and yet OPC/LPC s continued to be conducted by this company.
Certain Operators refused.......quite rightly.
Those who had this "pony express" mentality have some serious questions to answer? Are they fit and proper people in their current roles?
I can appreciate that pressure was brought to bear on the crews, but clearly the TREs presiding clearly have no backbone and should consider their positions, together with those higher up the food chain who were aware of the simulator's condition.
Had this occurred there is no way this FSTD would have remained in service.
Additionally, the operator is responsible for certifying that an FSTD has been checked and is ready for training.
IF any of this has any semblance of truth then such a significant failure of a Compliance Monitoring Programme ought to lead to an immediate suspension and full audit of the operator.
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Imho, IF these sim unserviceability reports are correct, then a whole bunch of people deserve to lose licences at the very least, if not do jail time.
And I include in that list any crew member that allowed themselves to be signed off!
And I include in that list any crew member that allowed themselves to be signed off!
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Why is the propeller programmed to feather with somewhere near 50% power available?
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tim ; for us , it was - "Dead LEG = Dead engine ". But, mate of mine, twin conversion got the failure, kept it beautifully under control but nervous as hell and concentrating on keeping the ball in the centre said that the leg pressurising the rudder pedal felt, er, numb. Instructor asked "Which engine has failed ?", matey touched his numb leg and assertively replied "Dead leg, dead engine, the left one, sir " ! Top instructor gently pulled back the live engine, a bit, to make the point but did manage a wry smile.
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TransAsia says all its 71 ATR aircraft pilots face skills test following crash
In a statement, the airline said "71 pilots on its fleet of 10 ATR planes will be required to do a test by the Civil Aeronautics Administration and a professional unit to make sure they are all qualified on their jobs." - AFP
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the media just found out
The pilots from being hailed hero to now villains! All Transasia pilots to be checked if they can fly aeroplaes..after "shutting down the working engine".The Hollywood drama begins!
