Virgin landing gear incident LGW!
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From what I understand, the crew were told that ther was little margin for landing the aircraft within the runway length avaliable, taking into account the reduced braking capacity. Hence the neccesity to get the aircraft on the ground and braking at the earliest opportunity.
Flare technique is an interesting topic for this case.I usually do a 2 stage flare out of habit but many colleagues do a one stage,which if you're a little late could well be a cruncher.
Don't know what technique was used here but the 2 stage flare might have enabled the pilot to judge the elevator authority better.
Don't know what technique was used here but the 2 stage flare might have enabled the pilot to judge the elevator authority better.
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Dislodge the gear?
Kindly forgive me if this has already been discussed, but is it not possible the firm landing and subsequent bounce was a deliberate attempt to dislodge the stuck gear?
Regardless, hats off to the crew for a happy ending.
Regardless, hats off to the crew for a happy ending.
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Generally it is normal practise for the AFS to communicate with the flight deck via a discreet channel usually after the end of the landing sequence. In addition to this channel responding crews will also have a main fire service channel , a tower channel and ground frequency to use and communicate .
During this incident the AFS oic would have been in constant comms throughout with the flight crew updating them on the exterior conditions.
During this incident the AFS oic would have been in constant comms throughout with the flight crew updating them on the exterior conditions.
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One thing I was mildly surprised about was how long after landing the engines appear (from the head-on footage) to have been kept running after coming to a stop. I don't imagine that there was an intention to taxi in. What are the engines providing after stopping that the APU couldn't provide ?
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LLuCCiFeR wrote:
SMOC posted a possible explanation for the slightly heavy landing/bounce...
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5...ml#post8801645
No, I'm not God's gift to aviation, but just look at the wing flex upon that landing! Sorry, but that's not a normal landing and the situation IMHO does not justify something like this. What about the stress on the remaining gears?
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5...ml#post8801645
1. A previous post said it was at FL320 when it turned back.
2. Wing gear alternate extension.
3. Bounced / firm landing.
As said earlier all signs of a system 4 hydraulic failure.
1. Ops/Eng says come home.
2. Alternate extend wing gear & outboard flaps unfortunately right side wing gear gets fouled on the door.
3. Firm due to no R/H outboard elevator leaving approx 3/4 pitch authority. Bounce due to speed brake not armed as per the QRH due to no deployment of the ground spoilers (sys #4) on touch down which would cause a pitch up if they were armed due to remaining spoilers (sys 2&3).
Manual braking using system 1 for the rollout (antiskid-yes, autobrake - no)
The leading edge retracts on selection of reverse thrust completely normal. They were extended for the approach.
2. Wing gear alternate extension.
3. Bounced / firm landing.
As said earlier all signs of a system 4 hydraulic failure.
1. Ops/Eng says come home.
2. Alternate extend wing gear & outboard flaps unfortunately right side wing gear gets fouled on the door.
3. Firm due to no R/H outboard elevator leaving approx 3/4 pitch authority. Bounce due to speed brake not armed as per the QRH due to no deployment of the ground spoilers (sys #4) on touch down which would cause a pitch up if they were armed due to remaining spoilers (sys 2&3).
Manual braking using system 1 for the rollout (antiskid-yes, autobrake - no)
The leading edge retracts on selection of reverse thrust completely normal. They were extended for the approach.
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Photos in Press!!!!
Anyone notice how the photos of the landing appear to have been "edited", by this i mean that all of the footage at the time of the landing (tube etc) dont appear to show anything more than the usual puff of wheel smoke upon landing, yet the front pages this morning showed huge sparks coming from the oleo....If this is the case then it just shows what level picture editors will stoop to get the scoop and who cares if we scare a few passengers unnecessarily.....
Last edited by Colonal Mustard; 30th Dec 2014 at 16:45. Reason: Sorted the link out
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Classic gear failure
In 1995 I had a left body gear fail to extend properly. Called for gear down and then there was a very violent shake of the airframe. We all felt as if we had had a mid-air. We also lost hydraulic system one. Ran all the procedures and finally landed. The gear actuator had failed, broken and the hydraulic fluid was gone. The landing was uneventful. 747-200
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LLuCCiFeR:
Suggest you check your typos more carefully if you don't want to give people easy potshots
p.p.s. Rochelle? I have no idea what you are referring to
then I seriously wonder why they didn't go to LRH which has a longer runway and is also a Virgin base (Maintenance, Pax handling etc) instead of returning to LGW.
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Thank you ... yes, it must be the outer section of the door that has fouled the tilted gear. Which can happen during emergency extension if the door release does not function.
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the crew were told that ther was little margin for landing the aircraft within the runway length available
Yeah, not that long, especially when the bounce used up about about 1000 feet of available runway.
Kudos for keeping it on an even keel though.
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the photo taken from behind (post 153) seems to show some spoiler float already taking place, due hydraulic loss.
all in all, a lot of activity in the cockpit to get this sorted out, reduced flap approach speed, reduced braking ability, restricted runway length, etc, over and above the QRH items of loss of Hyd, partial gear etc
some planning went into a successful outcome...well done crew !
all in all, a lot of activity in the cockpit to get this sorted out, reduced flap approach speed, reduced braking ability, restricted runway length, etc, over and above the QRH items of loss of Hyd, partial gear etc
some planning went into a successful outcome...well done crew !
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What are the engines providing after stopping that the APU couldn't provide ?
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Guys: I ask an open question and hope an open discussion. When there is such a situation it will cause a major civilian airport to be closed for a lengthy period. This will cause major flight diversions & cancellations which will have enormous economic/social repercussions to many innocent parties. Down the road there are enormous military runways with all the necessary safety services paid for by the tax-payer and seldom used. Why do a/c in such circumstances not divert to these airfields?
The same argument is there for security flights. STN & PIK are the UK designated bomb/hi-jack safety related airport diversions. Why use civil airfields when the military have all the required personnel, supplemented by local civil police, to handle the situation?
I stress; this is on the table for an open discussion, not to attract derisory rejection.
The same argument is there for security flights. STN & PIK are the UK designated bomb/hi-jack safety related airport diversions. Why use civil airfields when the military have all the required personnel, supplemented by local civil police, to handle the situation?
I stress; this is on the table for an open discussion, not to attract derisory rejection.
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RAT 5, have a read through the pages of this thread. That subject has been discussed quite thoroughly 
To summarise
- Lack of pax handling facilities
- No based airline maintenance facilities
- Lack of airfield knowledge for crew
- Cost of operating airfields with ILS, fire, medical etc
To summarise
- Lack of pax handling facilities
- No based airline maintenance facilities
- Lack of airfield knowledge for crew
- Cost of operating airfields with ILS, fire, medical etc
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This was a skillful landing. It will be interesting to read more about what went wrong with the gear in the coming days and weeks. Presumably not serious enough to warrant the grounding of other aircraft until the fault is identified?
RAT 5, have a read through the pages of this thread. That subject has been discussed quite thoroughly
To summarise
- Lack of pax handling facilities
- No based airline maintenance facilities
- Lack of airfield knowledge for crew
- Cost of operating airfields with ILS, fire, medical etc
To summarise
- Lack of pax handling facilities
- No based airline maintenance facilities
- Lack of airfield knowledge for crew
- Cost of operating airfields with ILS, fire, medical etc
