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Air Asia Indonesia Lost Contact from Surabaya to Singapore

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Air Asia Indonesia Lost Contact from Surabaya to Singapore

Old 28th Dec 2014, 12:01
  #121 (permalink)  
 
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All probes (pitot included) are permanently heated in flight The air / ground logic sees to that. There is a manual ON available on the ground but it does nothing in the air.

Alpha Prot is AoA driven but presented in relation to speed on the speed tape. The pilots will see the Prot band (amber and black) at the bottom of the speed tape and the RED overspeed at the top. Red beats amber hence pitch up to get out of the red. Turning off the ADRs gets rid of all erroneous speed indications whereupon the BUSS activates to show ONLY AoA fed from vane information which has a GREEN band (very comforting) when flying a safe AoA.

Even if no BUSS fitted on this aircraft, the power / attitude drill trumps everything and the aircraft will fly perfectly well. An FO colleague I flew with recently carries a small laminated card with him that he sticks by his PFD with all the power / attitude settings on them. I only remember the two settings to get me out of trouble but maybe not a bad idea as a permanent feature?
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 12:12
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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Jockster, would you like to clarify your second sentence?
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 12:15
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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Does anyone have any information on the ELT fitted by Airbus?
This is one of the models fitted to the Boeing's, link below.

The B406-4 has been modified to interface with Boeing's Master Caution System in conjunction with the DZUS mounted cockpit remote panel (P/N 453-0161) for the B737 and is furthermore approved for use on all models of the B747, B757, B767 and B777.

http://www.acrartex.com/media/137484...cification.pdf
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 12:15
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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Whilst not wishing to hijack the thread with an agenda, does this company utilise P2F for FO's ?

I noticed the FO was reported as French & just wondered whether we had a likely scenario of very inexperienced guy in RHS, Capt pops out to take a leak (or worse, not unheard of in that part of the world) FO doesn't manage to avoid a big one . . . total speculation on my part, but a plausible scenario "if" they crew their aircraft with paying guests.
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 12:15
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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98 minutes elapsed before missing alert given

indonesia's Search And Rescue Services were briefed that the aircraft contacted Jakarta Center at 06:12L (23:12Z) while enroute at FL320 and requested to deviate left of airway M635 and to climb to FL380.
At 06:16L the aircraft was observed normally, radio contact occurred. At 06:17L radio contact was lost, the transponder (ADS-B) remained available-
however, at 06:18L the transponder was lost as well, the last recorded position was S3.3708 E109.6911 (about 110nm east southeast of Pulau Belitung). 50 minutes later INCERFA (aircraft position uncertain alert), 70 minutes later ALERTFA (emergency alert) and 98 minutes later DETRESFA (distress alert) was declared by ATC.
source avherald

50 mins to declare a/c not reporting and 98 minutes to declare missing when transponder went off 2 mins after radio contact was lost - why all so slow?
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 12:18
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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Second sentence perfectly clear to me, Rhino.
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 12:19
  #127 (permalink)  
 
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Jock

That is a very good idea. Back to basics. There are three (plus altitude) cruise parameters/indications. If we lose one we should be able to get out of trouble with the remaining two that are available to us. This also provides a good cross check should we suspect something is amiss.

Last edited by Sop_Monkey; 28th Dec 2014 at 12:48.
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 12:21
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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Alpha Prot is AoA driven but presented in relation to speed on the speed tape. The pilots will see the Prot band (amber and black) at the bottom of the speed tape and the RED overspeed at the top. Red beats amber hence pitch up to get out of the red. Turning off the ADRs gets rid of all erroneous speed indications whereupon the BUSS activates to show ONLY AoA fed from vane information which has a GREEN band (very comforting) when flying a safe AoA.
Thanks - was not thinking straight re my question.

My lack of knowledge re BUSS is most of our aircraft do not have them, and might have seen it in the sim once. But more importantly, IMHO if you survive the "diagnosis" of "Loss of Airspeed Indications" the subsequent handling is relatively "easy". I think the "total loss" events have never really even carried out the IAs?

My favourite, as seems yours (and not in the IAs) is the idle / 0deg pitch, in Cruise.
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 12:25
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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My first post here.

A320 has a very bad reputation on FBW system and stall characteristics on altitudes above 35.000 feet. Stall margin is reduced and even the bank of 25 degrees in HDG mode is very dangerous and can induce a stall. Judging by the last radar picture of aircraft position, pilot has deviated 120 degrees of course very abruptly, asking to climb to 38.000 feet, and that is NOT the way you do it in Equatorial region with the tops of Cb in that area that are very high and also when you have a squall line you should plan well before 20Nm from the storm. In this case he was literally running away.
Stall margin is VERY close for A320 on that altitude and with that kind of maneuvering and weather. Also, the last data says that crew added 800kg (because of the weather) of additional fuel and that makes them even heavier and reduces stall margin even more. Captain has only 6000 hrs.
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 12:28
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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"50 mins to declare a/c not reporting and 98 minutes to declare missing when transponder went off 2 mins after radio contact was lost - why all so slow?"

you've never worked in Indonesia?

They were hoping it was all OK, that it was something electronic, or human error or that it wouldn't happen on their watch

Not every culture automatically assumes the worst.........................
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 12:40
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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50 mins to declare a/c not reporting and 98 minutes to declare missing when transponder went off 2 mins after radio contact was lost - why all so slow?
These are formal declaration points. But ATC wasn't sitting on their bums doing nothing for 98 minutes.

As soon as contact is lost, procedures are followed, which includes coordinating with other ATC facilities, communicating with the airline, talking with various nearby airports, checking with military / other agencies, SAR, increasing separation from other aircraft from the area, etc.
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 12:42
  #132 (permalink)  
A4

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A320 has a very bad reputation on FBW system and stall characteristics on altitudes above 35.000 feet.
Really? Care to back that up? As others have stated here, if you suffer loss of IAS the first rule is DONT PANIC! It's just an indication you've lost. If the thrust is the same and your pitch attitude is the same then you will continue to fly- you will not fall out of the sky. The idle/0 degrees pitch for a gentle descent will give time to grab QRH for drills.

Stall margin is VERY close for A320 on that altitude and with that kind of maneuvering and weather.
I think you'll find that being close to stall margin at altitude is not unique to the A320 - it's basic physics/aerodynamics.
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 12:46
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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Whilst not wishing to hijack the thread with an agenda, does this company utilise P2F for FO's ?
I was wondering the same...
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 12:50
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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Hi,

catplaystation
I noticed the FO was reported as French & just wondered whether we had a likely scenario of very inexperienced guy in RHS, Capt pops out to take a leak (or worse, not unheard of in that part of the world) FO doesn't manage to avoid a big one . . . total speculation on my part, but a plausible scenario "if" they crew their aircraft with paying guests.

Rémi Emmanuel Plesel a été inscrit sur la prestigieuse liste des pilotes certifiés les plus qualifiés et les mieux entraîné de la FAA en septembre 2013. « Plesel fait partie des pilotes qui ont dépassé le haut niveau d’éducation et de résultats médicaux établis par la FAA ».
Rémi Emmanuel Plesel, premier officier de bord, ayant 2.275 heures de vol à son actif, était un des membres de l’équipage selon Jakarta News.
Rémi Emmanuel Plesel was inscribed on the prestigious list of certified pilots the most qualified and best-trained FAA in September 2013. "Plesel is one of the pilots who exceeded the high level of education and health outcomes established by the FAA ".
Rémi Emmanuel Plesel first officer aboard, with 2,275 hours of flying time, was one of the crew members as Jakarta News
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 12:58
  #135 (permalink)  
 
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P2F

I believe Air Asia (Malaysia) do.
But they can not recruit a foreign pilot as F/O.
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 12:58
  #136 (permalink)  
 
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What are the chances of the slow speed being due to unreliable airspeed? A blocked pitot will over read in the climb, hence the pilot or autopilot will continue to raise the nose to bring the speed back, before identifying the problem. The over speed comes quickly and the autothrust will bring thrust to idle.

Which aircraft could accelerate on the speed tape with thrust at idle for the climb?

None, hence the unreliable airspeed being identified requires, a autopilot off, autothrust off, flight directors off.
Then set a reliable thrust setting with about 3 degrees nose up, wings level and all will be fine, survival wise.

I never flew A320, but instructed on A330/A340.

On the other hand, if there is a rapid climb before disappearance, this would indicate the blocked pitot, translating into a rapid climb trying to hold the speed back, thus giving a low ground speed read out. Not sure where the ADS picks up the TAS, but if speed is unreliable, surely this read out could be unreliable to.
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 13:03
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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You would need to consider what kind of experience the total times of the crew consisted of. If his 6000 hours is mostly on the A320 this would make the Captain relatively well experienced, particularly if mainly in that region. Same with the F/O, mostly jet time or first airline job with only a few hours on type and the rest in Caravans ?

There was a case in Australia not too long ago of an F/O climbing above the recommended max alt and nearly losing control.
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 13:07
  #138 (permalink)  
 
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First Officer:
FAA recognizes Remi Emmanuel Plesel

Passenger Manifest:
Un pilote français parmi l'équipage du vol AirAsia QZ8501

An astonishing 23 no-shows for this flight.
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 13:10
  #139 (permalink)  
 
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23 noshows is not unusual for a LCC carrier in S.E Asia especially for an 0530 Lt departure.

Ps. I recognise the Captains name. May be ex the B742 at Garuda.

Last edited by B772; 28th Dec 2014 at 13:14. Reason: Spelling
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Old 28th Dec 2014, 13:17
  #140 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
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First Officer:
FAA recognizes Remi Emmanuel Plesel
Sorry but as far as I can tell, this actually means nothing.

It is a "spam" Search Engine Optimization (SEO) page automatically generated by "Aviation Business Gazette" for nearly everyone in the FAA's pilot certification database (containing over 640,000 entries).

Plesel is listed in the database only because he has an FAA Private Pilot license issued on the basis of his foreign license.

Sadly a few press articles have now been quoting from this bogus page.
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