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Air Asia Indonesia Lost Contact from Surabaya to Singapore

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Air Asia Indonesia Lost Contact from Surabaya to Singapore

Old 5th Jan 2015, 15:44
  #1281 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
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IcePack;
If this AirAsia crew found the control laws went from normal to direct 1 second they would getting max roll rates of 15deg/sec to suddenly in the region of 50deg/sec & full back stick going from 2.5 g to goodness knows what.
What, if any, warning do you receive?
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Old 5th Jan 2015, 17:21
  #1282 (permalink)  
 
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Open Door, Not a lot is the easy answer. But "Use ManPitch Trim" on the PFD, & a couple of small x's. I'm trying to answer some questions but really you need to do a type rating to understand the BUS as simple explanations don't cover the complete picture. Trouble is a little knowledge tends to confuse the issue as the control laws are complex, hence my comments on give the crew the benefit of the doubt until more is know of the event that caused the tragic outcome. O.K.
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Old 5th Jan 2015, 18:57
  #1283 (permalink)  
 
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CBS News tweeted that that black boxes may have been found.

https://twitter.com/WLTX
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Old 5th Jan 2015, 19:11
  #1284 (permalink)  
 
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slats11

It is only for claims in excess of this cap (USD $170000 approx) that negligence has to be established [under the Montreal Convention].

Not sure about the details of the earlier Warsaw convention.
Not an aviation lawyer, but years ago I indirectly encountered some issues regarding an Indonesian airline crash and liability under the Warsaw Convention.

My recollection is the liability caps under the Warsaw Convention apply notwithstanding any claim of negligence by the airline or its employees. (One reason why lawyers sometimes tried to sue a third party not subject to those limits, such as an aircraft or component manufacturer.)

Last edited by Passenger 389; 5th Jan 2015 at 19:31. Reason: replaced "typically" with "sometimes"
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Old 5th Jan 2015, 19:14
  #1285 (permalink)  
 
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It seems someone may have got overexcited from a story from WLT9 Searchers may have found black boxes of AirAsia jet -- they think they've found the tail - but won't confirm it. But if they have that is where they would expect to find the DFDR/CVR but they haven't found them yet...

"We found what has a high probability of being the tail of the plane," Yayan Sofyan, commander of Indonesian Navy ship KRI Bung Tomo, said at a news conference. He said the tail should contain the black boxes — the flight data and voice recorders. His vessel was able to recover other debris that was handed over to authorities, he said.
Indonesian authorities did not immediately confirm the discovery. "I am not saying it's the tail yet," said Bambang Soelistyo, head of the National Search and Rescue Agency. "That is suspected. Now we are trying to confirm it."
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Old 5th Jan 2015, 19:17
  #1286 (permalink)  
 
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Icepack, I hope I have misunderstood your post in response to another's comment about many guys not being able to interpret VORs. My understanding was that you think raw data is an obsolete and un-needed skill, now irrelevant. If that is what you meant, then please think carefully about how you'd handle an FMC failure in a non-radar IMC environment. I've had that happen a few times, including on twin-FMC aircraft; if one goes, both go, because they're operating the same software and it's invariably that which is the problem, not the hardware. Old skills are just as needed today as before because the laws of physics and aerodynamics haven't changed. We need to be able to cope with modern techniques and still be competent in the old, despite reduced opportunity to practice the old. That is what Airbus designers and airline managers spectacularly fail to understand and so it seems do many "pilots" (a term I dislike permitting modern switch monkeys).
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Old 5th Jan 2015, 19:17
  #1287 (permalink)  
 
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Pictures from yesterdays recovery effort.






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Old 5th Jan 2015, 19:19
  #1288 (permalink)  
 
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More:





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Old 5th Jan 2015, 19:21
  #1289 (permalink)  
 
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Im not a Tweet but looking at that link it seems oldish news and I dont think the black boxes have been found or even the pingers heard yet. At least one of the large submerged objects has now proved to be a sunken ship.

I liked University's first post above and it reminded me of the AirNZ A320 Perpignon crash that resulted from icing up AoA sensors and an impromptu flight test causing a low level stall.
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Old 5th Jan 2015, 19:23
  #1290 (permalink)  
 
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More:

3 more bodies recovered. A total of 37 now.





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Old 5th Jan 2015, 19:26
  #1291 (permalink)  
 
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Old 5th Jan 2015, 19:35
  #1292 (permalink)  
 
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Old 5th Jan 2015, 19:36
  #1293 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ian W View Post
There is then the overwhelming feeling of politicians that they need to DO something. In UK and USA this leads to a flurry of knee jerk legislation after an incident and political point scoring. In this case some unfortunate uninvolved minions may have lost their jobs - so politicians can be seen 'doing something'.
AirAsia plane crash: Investigation continues

oh dear, seems the petty officials are in CYA mode.

the transportation ministry has revealed harsh measures against everyone who allowed AirAsia Flight 8501 to take off without proper permits — including the suspension of the airport’s operator and officials in the control tower.
got to love the way they twist the story too

PILOTS ‘FLEW WITHOUT WEATHER REPORT’
instead of "Transportation Ministry officials were not at the airport to supply required weather report."

Last edited by p.j.m; 5th Jan 2015 at 19:47.
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Old 5th Jan 2015, 19:49
  #1294 (permalink)  
 
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RE: Those pictures

Lookit those bottomless seats. I'm totally fine with waiting for the report, BUT! Looks like this A/C did a belly flop. Comments?
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Old 5th Jan 2015, 19:58
  #1295 (permalink)  
 
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the transportation ministry has revealed harsh measures against everyone who allowed AirAsia Flight 8501 to take off without proper permits — including the suspension of the airport’s operator and officials in the control tower.
Wonder how this will play out as news reports have cited that the "flight took" off 25 mins before the tower opened officially and on a Sunday I highly doubt you would find the airport operator (Manager) around. So it sounds like they are making sure the blame sits firmly on AirAsia while letting the public believe they will make swift action against so called offenders.

Wonder if this is the reason why the flight moved up 2 hours ahead of schedule and/or was it for wx?
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Old 5th Jan 2015, 20:02
  #1296 (permalink)  
 
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Lookit those bottomless seats. I'm totally fine with waiting for the report, BUT! Looks like this A/C did a belly flop. Comments?
Again, not much wreckage recovered, not very detailed photos. The wreckage photos that exists show little damage to the recovered parts. A few interior wall sections almost looks like they can be used as spare parts, they are so seemingly undamaged.

Yes, bottomless seats. Interesting. But more wreckage needs to be recovered. Of course the hull parts are of highest interest.
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Old 5th Jan 2015, 20:05
  #1297 (permalink)  
 
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Wonder if this is the reason why the flight moved up 2 hours ahead of schedule and/or was it for wx?
fox niner a few posts ago:

Maybe Air Asia re-scheduled their flight to 0530 LT on that sunday morning, specifically to depart before 0000Z. Therefore they could claim to have actually departed on a saturday, Zulu time.
Who knows? More peculiar things have happened in aviation...
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Old 5th Jan 2015, 20:18
  #1298 (permalink)  
 
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Personally, I would prefer not to see pictures of bodies on this site.
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Old 5th Jan 2015, 20:26
  #1299 (permalink)  
 
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I agree.
I also think photos of personal effects like glasses and keys are unnecessarily voyeuristic, and add nothing to anyones knowledge about what caused this disaster.
Its pretty sick.
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Old 5th Jan 2015, 20:32
  #1300 (permalink)  
 
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aluminium-shuffler
You are right but I was meaning in the old sense eg an i dependant swinging needle.
Everything is now on a RDMI.
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