Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Air Asia Indonesia Lost Contact from Surabaya to Singapore

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Air Asia Indonesia Lost Contact from Surabaya to Singapore

Old 5th Jan 2015, 19:17
  #1281 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Land of 1,000 Dances
Age: 59
Posts: 68
Pictures from yesterdays recovery effort.






HighAndFlighty is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2015, 19:19
  #1282 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Land of 1,000 Dances
Age: 59
Posts: 68
More:





HighAndFlighty is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2015, 19:21
  #1283 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 251
Im not a Tweet but looking at that link it seems oldish news and I dont think the black boxes have been found or even the pingers heard yet. At least one of the large submerged objects has now proved to be a sunken ship.

I liked University's first post above and it reminded me of the AirNZ A320 Perpignon crash that resulted from icing up AoA sensors and an impromptu flight test causing a low level stall.
ChrisJ800 is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2015, 19:23
  #1284 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Land of 1,000 Dances
Age: 59
Posts: 68
More:

3 more bodies recovered. A total of 37 now.





HighAndFlighty is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2015, 19:26
  #1285 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Land of 1,000 Dances
Age: 59
Posts: 68
More:



HighAndFlighty is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2015, 19:35
  #1286 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Land of 1,000 Dances
Age: 59
Posts: 68
More:









HighAndFlighty is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2015, 19:36
  #1287 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 357
Originally Posted by Ian W View Post
There is then the overwhelming feeling of politicians that they need to DO something. In UK and USA this leads to a flurry of knee jerk legislation after an incident and political point scoring. In this case some unfortunate uninvolved minions may have lost their jobs - so politicians can be seen 'doing something'.
AirAsia plane crash: Investigation continues

oh dear, seems the petty officials are in CYA mode.

the transportation ministry has revealed harsh measures against everyone who allowed AirAsia Flight 8501 to take off without proper permits — including the suspension of the airport’s operator and officials in the control tower.
got to love the way they twist the story too

PILOTS ‘FLEW WITHOUT WEATHER REPORT’
instead of "Transportation Ministry officials were not at the airport to supply required weather report."

Last edited by p.j.m; 5th Jan 2015 at 19:47.
p.j.m is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2015, 19:49
  #1288 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Lower Skunk Cabbageland, WA
Age: 70
Posts: 354
RE: Those pictures

Lookit those bottomless seats. I'm totally fine with waiting for the report, BUT! Looks like this A/C did a belly flop. Comments?
Organfreak is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2015, 19:58
  #1289 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: US
Posts: 64
the transportation ministry has revealed harsh measures against everyone who allowed AirAsia Flight 8501 to take off without proper permits — including the suspension of the airport’s operator and officials in the control tower.
Wonder how this will play out as news reports have cited that the "flight took" off 25 mins before the tower opened officially and on a Sunday I highly doubt you would find the airport operator (Manager) around. So it sounds like they are making sure the blame sits firmly on AirAsia while letting the public believe they will make swift action against so called offenders.

Wonder if this is the reason why the flight moved up 2 hours ahead of schedule and/or was it for wx?
BG47 is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2015, 20:02
  #1290 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Sweden
Age: 43
Posts: 443
Lookit those bottomless seats. I'm totally fine with waiting for the report, BUT! Looks like this A/C did a belly flop. Comments?
Again, not much wreckage recovered, not very detailed photos. The wreckage photos that exists show little damage to the recovered parts. A few interior wall sections almost looks like they can be used as spare parts, they are so seemingly undamaged.

Yes, bottomless seats. Interesting. But more wreckage needs to be recovered. Of course the hull parts are of highest interest.
MrSnuggles is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2015, 20:05
  #1291 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Sweden
Age: 43
Posts: 443
Wonder if this is the reason why the flight moved up 2 hours ahead of schedule and/or was it for wx?
fox niner a few posts ago:

Maybe Air Asia re-scheduled their flight to 0530 LT on that sunday morning, specifically to depart before 0000Z. Therefore they could claim to have actually departed on a saturday, Zulu time.
Who knows? More peculiar things have happened in aviation...
MrSnuggles is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2015, 20:18
  #1292 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 125
Personally, I would prefer not to see pictures of bodies on this site.
Broadlands is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2015, 20:26
  #1293 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: London
Posts: 47
I agree.
I also think photos of personal effects like glasses and keys are unnecessarily voyeuristic, and add nothing to anyones knowledge about what caused this disaster.
Its pretty sick.
swordfish41 is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2015, 20:32
  #1294 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 913
aluminium-shuffler
You are right but I was meaning in the old sense eg an i dependant swinging needle.
Everything is now on a RDMI.
IcePack is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2015, 20:33
  #1295 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Land of 1,000 Dances
Age: 59
Posts: 68
@ Swordfish11

I posted those pictures to reinforce the human aspect of this tragedy. Some posters in this thread seem to overlook that element.
HighAndFlighty is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2015, 20:35
  #1296 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Kent
Posts: 6
Observation and question

My only involvement in air travel is as a frequent passenger so I have a great interest in this but little knowledge. Consequently I hope someone can help me understand the potential meaning of an observation from the photos of the seats a few posts back.

Some of the photos show oxygen masks and tubing wrapped around the seat frames. My understanding is that these are 'dropped' from the ceiling when needed. Is it fair to conclude that they must have been deployed prior to impact, or is it possible that this could have occurred due to the final impact? I would have thought the latter unlikely so am wondering if anyone knows of a precedent, perhaps.
RGN01 is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2015, 20:39
  #1297 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: YARM
Age: 70
Posts: 118
@Broadlands

grim and uncomfortable at times, but twisted wreckage and body bags are undeniably the tragic result of many air disasters.

I personally find it only fitting that those unfortunate souls should be represented as more than a "statistic" of this incident, and see nothing undignified in the above set of photos. Morgue images are another story...
unworry is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2015, 20:39
  #1298 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Skating away on the thin ice of a new day.
Posts: 1,034
RGN01, I would suggest it happened upon impact and then with the breakup of the fuselage with water swirling through it. The latches on the oxy mask enclosures are not that robust. The over head panels on the 320 are not that robust anyway.
ampclamp is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2015, 20:40
  #1299 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: France
Posts: 9
I think the red panel with the oblique edge in the first picture here corresponds to the panel just above where the flap meets the fuselage in this photo.
DrGitfinger is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2015, 20:41
  #1300 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 19
Core Icing??

The Globe and Mail is reporting;

Ice to blame for downing of AirAsia jetliner, report suggests - The Globe and Mail


In a 14-page report, the Indonesian weather office said engine damage due to ice was “the most probable weather phenomenon” at play in the crash of the Airbus A320-200, which had 162 on board.

The meteorological data raised the possibility that Flight 8501 was downed by a phenomenon that NASA has called a “modern-day aviation mystery.” In the right conditions, the core of a jet engine that normally operates at 1,600 degrees Celsius can be so badly frozen it slows, or shuts down altogether.

More than 200 examples of such ice-induced “power-loss” have been reported in the past quarter-century, with at least one aircraft gliding into a “dead-stick” landing, without any power, its pilots unable to restart the engines. Most of the incidents have occurred in the south-east Asia region, near large convective storms like the ones AirAsia Flight 8501 encountered on its flight path Dec. 28.

The unique kind of icing involves clouds of ice particles, some as small as a grain of flour, and is different from the traditional kind of wing and engine icing that Canadian flyers are familiar with, after seeing aircraft sprayed with a chemical solution to prevent problems in wintertime. That more typical icing involves supercooled water that is not present above 22,000 feet of altitude. Flight 8501 had been cruising at 32,000 feet.

Ice particles are a different problem, and a much more difficult one that the industry has spent years struggling to study and solve.

Unlike thunderstorms, ice particles are largely invisible on aircraft radar and can be located as far as 50 kilometres from a cloud mass. They don’t crust wings with ice and don’t trigger aircraft ice detectors, making them even harder to spot. They aren’t even always associated with the worst possible weather: pilots have said their flight conditions were unremarkable, with only light turbulence and something that looked like rain, when engines suddenly shut down.

Industry and government began studying the problem a decade ago, after a raft of unexplained losses of power – some of them severe, including one where the pilot re-started engines only 1,300 feet above the ocean. Aviation engineers had traditionally believed a modern aircraft was immune to problems from ice particles, which they thought would bounce harmlessly off the skin of a plane, and be melted by the the inner workings of a jet engine. Instead, it grew clear that somehow dense clouds of particles were actually cooling the inside of the engine enough to cause freezing.

A 2006 academic paper co-authored by Boeing, aircraft-system maker Honeywell and an Environment Canada scientist, provided a comprehensive descriptions of what had gone wrong, studying dozens of ice particle icing events. One incident the paper studied suggested very heavy snow could have the same effect. But it also pointed out that knowledge gaps were large: “There have been very limited measurements of the microphysical properties of deep convective clouds to date.”

It remains unclear precisely how ice particle icing happens, however, or how exactly to prevent it. Scientists, including some from Environment Canada, have used a Gulfstream business jet to look for ice particles off the coast of Australia, but that is expensive work – and difficult. The particles can act like a sandblaster on measuring instruments. The National Research Council in Ottawa has also done lab tests on ice particles.

It wasn’t until 2013 that a specialized NASA research facility in Ohio was able to recreate the high-altitude icing conditions that shut down a running test engine. Late in 2013, Boeing and engine-maker General Electric began testing a software upgrade designed to help prevent engine loss, after a Boeing-747 freighter run by Russian-owned AirBridge Cargo experienced ice particle-induced problems that damaged three of its four engines.

Boeing, at the time, promised new algorithms that would help detect the buildup of ice, and use existing engine valves to eject it.

The ice particle problem is nonetheless a vexing one for an industry that spends tremendous time and money on ensuring it can operate in all kinds of ugly conditions. General Electric recently opened a cold-weather testing facility in Winnipeg, for example.

“They throw blocks of ice into these engines and shoot frozen chickens and everything else into them trying to get them to fail,” said Jim La Spina, who joined General Electric in 1979 and rose to be in charge of its military and commercial engine programs. He is now president of Strategic Turbine Inventory Group, LLC, which provides parts for turbine engines.

With the crashed AirAsia flight, he said he suspects the pilots “lost control of the aircraft altogether. They probably lost power, they probably lost instrumentation and everything else based on the severity of the weather.”
B4MJ is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.