Drones threatening commercial a/c?
Pegase Driver
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There is a well known and studied phenomena, but not yet fully understood, that shows many eye witnesses reporting separately "facts" that are proven later to be completely fabricated. How this symbiosis works between different people in different locations remains a mystery.
The best example in aviation is the TWA 747 explosion near NY in 1996 . While the cause has been later well established ( explosion of central tank due faulty pump), may independent witnesses reported seeing a missile was launched. .
from wikipedia :
The official NTSB report explains this in more details for those interested.
The best example in aviation is the TWA 747 explosion near NY in 1996 . While the cause has been later well established ( explosion of central tank due faulty pump), may independent witnesses reported seeing a missile was launched. .
from wikipedia :
Although there were considerable discrepancies between different accounts, most witnesses to the accident had seen a "streak of light" that was unanimously described as ascending, moving to a point where a large fireball appeared, with several witnesses reporting that the fireball split in two as it descended toward the water.[There was intense public interest in these witness reports and much speculation that the reported streak of light was a missile that had struck TWA 800, causing the airplane to explode.[ These witness accounts were a major reason for the initiation and duration of the FBI's criminal investigation.
I recall vividly that an esteemed, long time member of Pprune, heavily involved in the aviation industry, posting a claim and possibly a clear photograph of the said trail here on Pprune. The photograph may have been sent as a PM.
The image was shot from his home or holiday home located in the area !
El Grifo
The image was shot from his home or holiday home located in the area !
El Grifo
Droning On
Here they come, the lame brained copy cats. BBC reports a man hauled down from the Severn Bridge for flying a drone from one of the towers. Nut loose and fancy free.
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LHR, LGW buy military-grade anti-drone systems
Heathrow and Gatwick confirmed that they’ve spent millions to acquire and install their own “military-grade anti-drone apparatus,” while Scotland’s Edinburgh Airport has also indicated that it’s taking its own precautions with foot patrols and expand some no-fly zones surrounding the facility.
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So, has anybody given an indication of how these systems work? Their level of reliability in doing so? And are they effective against drones which are operating on a pre-programmed GPS-based route?
To the latter point, the limited discussion from other internet commentators* is that it's neither likely nor wise to try and interfere with GPS signals to jam drones in the vicinity of airports for the entirely reasonable reason that there would be unintended consequences for legitimate traffic.
* Naturally I have no idea how qualified they are to comment...
I'm concerned that the public proclamations of having drone defenses at airports is at least partly using the same psychology that TV license detector vans employ - i.e. a significant amount of bluff and bluster...
/Alex
To the latter point, the limited discussion from other internet commentators* is that it's neither likely nor wise to try and interfere with GPS signals to jam drones in the vicinity of airports for the entirely reasonable reason that there would be unintended consequences for legitimate traffic.
* Naturally I have no idea how qualified they are to comment...
I'm concerned that the public proclamations of having drone defenses at airports is at least partly using the same psychology that TV license detector vans employ - i.e. a significant amount of bluff and bluster...
/Alex
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So, has anybody given an indication of how these systems work? Their level of reliability in doing so? And are they effective against drones which are operating on a pre-programmed GPS-based route?
To the latter point, the limited discussion from other internet commentators* is that it's neither likely nor wise to try and interfere with GPS signals to jam drones in the vicinity of airports for the entirely reasonable reason that there would be unintended consequences for legitimate traffic.
* Naturally I have no idea how qualified they are to comment...
I'm concerned that the public proclamations of having drone defenses at airports is at least partly using the same psychology that TV license detector vans employ - i.e. a significant amount of bluff and bluster...
/Alex
To the latter point, the limited discussion from other internet commentators* is that it's neither likely nor wise to try and interfere with GPS signals to jam drones in the vicinity of airports for the entirely reasonable reason that there would be unintended consequences for legitimate traffic.
* Naturally I have no idea how qualified they are to comment...
I'm concerned that the public proclamations of having drone defenses at airports is at least partly using the same psychology that TV license detector vans employ - i.e. a significant amount of bluff and bluster...
/Alex
In a webinar on GPS jamming I participated in 3 years ago, I shared the platform with a US Sheriff who used drones - we were asked about deploying GPS jammers to incapacitate drones - the Sheriff said " why would I tackle one risk by adding several others?" - he meant the collateral caused by interfering with GPS signals and agreed with me that it was a plain bad idea. Of course the other idea that goes around is the idea of spoofing GPS signals - this is what some people think happened to the US drone brought down in Iran - and the University of Texas have also demonstrated how to "take over" a GPS equipped drone using spoofing. But you really need the drone to be hovering in a stationary position for this to work, again, you are going to affect other nearby systems (probably) and there is absolutely no guarantee that the drone will be affected at all.
For me personally, the idea of someone using a powerful GNSS jammer or spoofer gun, moving it around erratically to try and bring down a moving drone in the vicinity of other legitimate systems that depend critically on GPS position or timing data just doesn't sound like a sensible idea unless the potential consequences are known - I spend a lot of my time helping people test systems and devices in order to make them more robust against real-world jamming and spoofing events - we really don't want to be deploying jammers or spoofers deliberately without a full risk assessment being carried out (perhaps this could be part of obtaining an exemption to use one of these devices near an airport?)
Using Geo-fencing is also often talked about as being a potential solution, this means that whilst GPS is being used by a drone, it is prohibited in flying in restricted areas. Another nice idea except for - what are the defined restricted areas, can they be updated - and there are also devices for some of the drones with these geo-fenced systems that can be programmed to apply a set of co-ordinate offsets - this is very easy to do - and the devices are cleverly marketed as being for users who need to film or carry out ostensible activities in a geo-fenced area...
I can't post a link yet but for those of you interested in a good assessment of drone defences there was an excellent presentation at DEFCON 25 which is well worth watching - if you google "DEFCON 25 game of drones" you'll find it. If anyone finds it useful, please feel free to add the link
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2) optical rangefinder tracks it
3) high power laser beam melts and disables it
here it is in a test:
The Army didn't buy the laser beam option though, their model just sends a barrage of radio signals to jam the drone which I'm unsure how effective it would be if it's operating on pre-programmed flightpath.
The Army didn't buy the laser beam option though, their model just sends a barrage of radio signals to jam the drone which I'm unsure how effective it would be if it's operating on pre-programmed flightpath.
Any laser floating around an airport could be dangerous.
Any laser floating around an airport could be dangerous.
I would have thought it more likely they purchased the "detection & tracking" part, but not the active counter measures.
However, it has to be "big upped" for the tabloids.
However, it has to be "big upped" for the tabloids.
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BBC News: Heathrow flights suspended 8th Jan at 17:48 due drone sighting
BBC breaking news reporting at https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46803713
(Apologies if this should be in the existing drone thread or isn't news as such.)
(Apologies if this should be in the existing drone thread or isn't news as such.)
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Original post updated accordingly.
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Well, anyone who wants some quiet time living on the departure or arrival path now has a very easy way to do that. Simply home build your own multicopter/flying wing and program a flightpath close to the airport. Not traceable since not actually radio controlled, and GPS is not necessary either, there is always GLONASS and Galileo, not to mention Baidu. Or simply terrain recognition, a childs play with todays system, a simply raspy can do that.
