Drones threatening commercial a/c?
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
From Tom Podolec's Twitter feed:
Aeromexico AM770
from Guadalajara suffered nose cone/radome damage on approach to Tijuana. Local media reporting it collided with a drone. No injuries reported. XA-ADV Boeing 737-800.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
More from Bloomberg:
The damaged nose of Aeromexico’s 737 jet. Source: AFAC Aviacao
Business
Boeing 737 Passenger Jet Damaged in Possible Midair Drone Strike
By andAlan LevinDecember 13, 2018, 6:37 PM EST
- Aircraft landed without incident in Tijuana after hit to nose
- Crew members heard a ‘pretty loud bang’ shortly before landing
Grupo Aeromexico SAB is investigating whether a drone slammed into a Boeing Co. 737 jetliner as the aircraft approached its destination in Tijuana, Mexico, on the U.S. border.Images on local media showed considerable damage to the nose of the 737-800, which was operating Wednesday as Flight 773 from Guadalajara. In a cabin recording, crew members can be heard saying they heard a “pretty loud bang” and asking the control tower to check if the nose was damaged. The collision happened shortly before landing.“The exact cause is still being investigated,” Aeromexico said in a statement. “The aircraft landed normally and the passengers’ safety was never compromised.”The potential drone strike stoked fears that the rising use of uncrewed aircraft will endanger planes filled with passengers. While most nations prohibit drones from flying in pathways reserved for airliners, the millions of small consumer devices that have been purchased around the world can’t be tracked on radar, making it difficult for authorities to enforce the rules. In addition, many users don’t know the rules or don’t follow them.
The damaged nose of Aeromexico’s 737 jet.
Source: AFAC Aviacao
So far, the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board has investigated one confirmed midair collision involving a drone. An Army helicopter hit the small hobbyist device near Staten Island, New York, in September 2017, causing relatively minor damage.
Canada’s Transportation Safety Board concluded that a small drone struck a turboprop carrying six passengers near Quebec on Oct. 12, 2017. The drone caused a dent in one wing and the commercial flight was able to land safely, investigators said in a report.A helicopter crash-landed in Charleston, South Carolina, in February after the pilot attempted to evade a drone, according to a police report.
In a 2017 study based on computerized models, the FAA concluded that drones would cause more damage than birds of a similar size because they contain metal parts. Significant damage to windshields, wings and tail surfaces of aircraft was possible, the study found. However, the damage a small consumer drone could cause was unlikely to prove catastrophic, the study found.
Source: AFAC Aviacao
More Incidents
The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration has logged a dramatic increase in the number of safety reports involving drones in recent years and air-carrier industry groups earlier this year called on the government to tighten regulations after a video was released purporting to show a drone flying just feet away from an airliner near Las Vegas. There have been about 6,000 drone sightings by pilots -- some of them by airline crews -- through June, according to FAA data.For more on how drone oversight has been faulted as incidents soar, click hereSo far, the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board has investigated one confirmed midair collision involving a drone. An Army helicopter hit the small hobbyist device near Staten Island, New York, in September 2017, causing relatively minor damage.
Canada’s Transportation Safety Board concluded that a small drone struck a turboprop carrying six passengers near Quebec on Oct. 12, 2017. The drone caused a dent in one wing and the commercial flight was able to land safely, investigators said in a report.A helicopter crash-landed in Charleston, South Carolina, in February after the pilot attempted to evade a drone, according to a police report.
In a 2017 study based on computerized models, the FAA concluded that drones would cause more damage than birds of a similar size because they contain metal parts. Significant damage to windshields, wings and tail surfaces of aircraft was possible, the study found. However, the damage a small consumer drone could cause was unlikely to prove catastrophic, the study found.
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hampshire
Age: 76
Posts: 821
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is a report in today's news of a drone having a very close call with a 737 at London Stansted:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-46540592
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-46540592
Join Date: May 2012
Location: London, UK
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would suggest it was the 737 had a close call with a drone - the 737 was, presumably, in it's assigned airspace.
That said, is there room for some scepticism here? At 10,000 ft, the 737 presumably wasn't on an assigned approach to Stanstead (or any other nearby airport?) and flying fast > 250mph?
Very few drones I've ever heard of can even dream of that altitude and those certainly not capable of significant horizontal speeds. Nor could they maintain that altitude for more than bare minutes.
Is it common for pilots to actually see a single bird before the a strike? I ask (as a non pilot), recalling an in-flght visit to the cockpit of a 747 (decades back when it was allowed) and on seeing both pilots and engineer twisted in their seats to chat with each other and I - I asked why no one looked out the windows. The reply was, "No point. Even if we see something at these closing speeds, there would be no time to react". They were referring to something the size of another aircraft.
Really, can pilots see and correctly identify a 1 meter object in those conditions?
That said, is there room for some scepticism here? At 10,000 ft, the 737 presumably wasn't on an assigned approach to Stanstead (or any other nearby airport?) and flying fast > 250mph?
Very few drones I've ever heard of can even dream of that altitude and those certainly not capable of significant horizontal speeds. Nor could they maintain that altitude for more than bare minutes.
Is it common for pilots to actually see a single bird before the a strike? I ask (as a non pilot), recalling an in-flght visit to the cockpit of a 747 (decades back when it was allowed) and on seeing both pilots and engineer twisted in their seats to chat with each other and I - I asked why no one looked out the windows. The reply was, "No point. Even if we see something at these closing speeds, there would be no time to react". They were referring to something the size of another aircraft.
Really, can pilots see and correctly identify a 1 meter object in those conditions?
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: wild blue yonder
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
More re "possible" drone strike Aeromexico airliner at Tijuana, Mexico from WSJ.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/possibl...sReel#cxrecs_s
https://www.wsj.com/articles/possibl...sReel#cxrecs_s
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Uk
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have just looked at the Gatwick arrivals website and it appears in excess of 21 flights have diverted.
In view of the seriousness of this event it would be interesting to know how these drones were reported/seen, especially at night.
One would hope that the threat was real and, if so, the culprits are caught.
In view of the seriousness of this event it would be interesting to know how these drones were reported/seen, especially at night.
One would hope that the threat was real and, if so, the culprits are caught.
Numerous people saw them including a crew taxiing for take off, I also believe their are a couple of videos going around.
updated: https://www.airlive.net/breaking-lon...ose-to-runway/
updated: https://www.airlive.net/breaking-lon...ose-to-runway/
I’m here at North Terminal departures waiting for my flight to awfully it has not been cancelled .......yet. Do feel for hundreds if not thousands of pax queuing up here .
Wtf is happening ....is it a bunch of young or old morons who think this is a game or something more sinister ...to disrupt air traffic .....
If there was a time for this.counter drone drone (this one I saw at Helitech which fires a net to catch the adversary in mid air), it’s needed now.
cheers
Wtf is happening ....is it a bunch of young or old morons who think this is a game or something more sinister ...to disrupt air traffic .....
If there was a time for this.counter drone drone (this one I saw at Helitech which fires a net to catch the adversary in mid air), it’s needed now.
cheers
Just seen this video: Drones Over Gatwick
Video
Not flying over, but hovering over Gatwick and well lit to be seen. No 'accident' there, clearly a deliberate, planned event.
Video
Not flying over, but hovering over Gatwick and well lit to be seen. No 'accident' there, clearly a deliberate, planned event.
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Amblesidel
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wonder when we are going to be told this is a well planned protest by environmentalists! I am just wondering if the airport has been warned of the drones by the operators, and it closed by NOTAM, can it be a case of endangering aircraft? However the flight of a drone within the ATZ clearly is an offence if they can find the offender.
I would say the problems of drones at public gatherings, prisons and airports if police firearms units and transport police had shotguns within their armory. But the trouble with this, being what I believe a protest, will be multiple launches of drones.
I would say the problems of drones at public gatherings, prisons and airports if police firearms units and transport police had shotguns within their armory. But the trouble with this, being what I believe a protest, will be multiple launches of drones.
From SkyNews a couple of minutes ago, so they're still there;
"Gatwick COO tells me ‘there is a drone on my airfield right now’, calls it an ‘irresponsible act’ that’s affected at least 10,000 people #GatwickAirport
Gottcha?
lightshot
"Gatwick COO tells me ‘there is a drone on my airfield right now’, calls it an ‘irresponsible act’ that’s affected at least 10,000 people #GatwickAirport
Gottcha?
lightshot
Pegase Driver
Join Date: May 1997
Location: Europe
Age: 74
Posts: 3,682
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re the video posted here , as said before it indeed looks more like an helicopter than a drone , ,
also this morning from the LGW web site :
Anyway I think more to this story than just spotting a couple of drones. Time will tell .
also this morning from the LGW web site :
"We also have the helicopter up in the air but the police advice us that it would be dangerous to seek to shoot the drone down because of what may happen to the stray bullets."
Something doesn't ring right about all this.
The airport was shut last night at 21:00
This morning at 9:00 the airport director states "there is still a drone over the airport"
Where's the video of this?
Why can't NPAS film it, ID the type?
Wait for it to return home?
How big is the battery...
The airport was shut last night at 21:00
This morning at 9:00 the airport director states "there is still a drone over the airport"
Where's the video of this?
Why can't NPAS film it, ID the type?
Wait for it to return home?
How big is the battery...
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: UK
Age: 60
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I seem to recall that Dutch police were training birds of prey to catch drones. This was back in 2016, so would of thought that this could be one method to get the airport back in business.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: south wales
Age: 46
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The obvious solution is for the airport to hire a commercial operator to fly another drone into the one that's being flown.
I strongly suspect it's operating on a pre-programmed GPS flight path. I doubt the 'operators' are anywhere in the vicinity, although they could be anywhere in a large search radius.
If it has a camera on board, it'll be underneath, leaving a huge blind spot. All the other drone has to do is descend upon the target from above, interfere with one of the props & the errant quad will be downed in seconds. No need for bullets or complicated net delivery systems. It really is that simple. I'm amazed no one's thought of this already. Even if the controlled drone is damaged beyond repair in the process, it's only a few hundred quid, instead of tens of thousands spent on diversions & passenger accommodation.
The propellors on most of these are pretty fragile. If the drone being taken down demonstrates any evasive manoeuvres that must mean the operator is within sight of it, meaning they could be apprehended. And if the downed unit is recovered, it'll have GPS log data onboard - including where it took off from.
I'm glad I sold mine several years ago!
I strongly suspect it's operating on a pre-programmed GPS flight path. I doubt the 'operators' are anywhere in the vicinity, although they could be anywhere in a large search radius.
If it has a camera on board, it'll be underneath, leaving a huge blind spot. All the other drone has to do is descend upon the target from above, interfere with one of the props & the errant quad will be downed in seconds. No need for bullets or complicated net delivery systems. It really is that simple. I'm amazed no one's thought of this already. Even if the controlled drone is damaged beyond repair in the process, it's only a few hundred quid, instead of tens of thousands spent on diversions & passenger accommodation.
The propellors on most of these are pretty fragile. If the drone being taken down demonstrates any evasive manoeuvres that must mean the operator is within sight of it, meaning they could be apprehended. And if the downed unit is recovered, it'll have GPS log data onboard - including where it took off from.
I'm glad I sold mine several years ago!
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 239
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The news is currently saying the Police have 20 units out looking for those responsible but that's going to be a real needle in a haystack search unless they get lucky - the controller could quite literally be miles away from the airport, sat on a hill somewhere, in a car, in an outbuilding etc. They might never be found.