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Drones threatening commercial a/c?

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Drones threatening commercial a/c?

Old 22nd Dec 2018, 08:54
  #1041 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 16024 View Post
Sunfish wrote:
Speaking of which, the real mystery, if true, is how a 30-odd year old drone enthusiast ends up with a 23 year old girlfriend...
Let's see them before declaring that a mystery.
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 09:02
  #1042 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by costalpilot View Post
you'll see em soon enough
Hmmm. So the attack that paralysed an international airport for more than 24 hours was mounted and controlled by a bloke on a bike, standing by the side of a public road and spotted by an eagle-eyed Sun reader.
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 09:07
  #1043 (permalink)  
 
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Stranger things have happened, yes it might be a cover story to hide other intelligence equipment but I think the eyewitness has appeared in the press.
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 09:20
  #1044 (permalink)  
 
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All this stuff about UK licences and UK dealers is by the by. The two individuals I know who have one both bought them in the USA (where they are cheaper) and just brought it back over in its box in their baggage,
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 11:09
  #1045 (permalink)  
TWT
 
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A lot of airport management authorities will now be hurriedly researching drone defence solutions !

And they'll be inundated with sales brochures no doubt. They were not very interested in listening to advice about the threat before this event.

Now, they have no choice since the threat has been very clearly demonstrated. Just fortunate that no-one was injured.
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 11:46
  #1046 (permalink)  
 
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According to BBC we have the suspects ages.;
"A 47-year-old man and a 54-year-old woman, from Crawley, were arrested in the town at about 22:00 GMT on Friday."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46657505
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 12:49
  #1047 (permalink)  
 
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Seems the mods didn't like my post, not from the 'in crowd' I 'spose. BUT despite that and the put down from Dave Reid my suggestion is actually what the army is using and more and the company is going to install a test system at EGJB. So there, matey !

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/comp...son/vi-BBR83SC

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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 12:56
  #1048 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by msjh View Post
I used to own a drone, which I hasten to add I flew legally. It made me wonder whether it is not possible to triangulate the signal from the control unit?
It's not as easy as you might expect.
Drones mostly use the 2.4Ghz band which is the same as the Wifi band and hence lots of other signals.

Also most use frequency hopping spread spectrum transmissions which would make it quite hard to track the signal back to the controller.

If the person flying the drone really does not want to be caught they could even send the drone on a pre-programed GPS mission
and turn off the transmitter so nothing to track.

Given that they are quite small (couple of foot), can be flying at say 400' at 20 knots it would be rather hard to hit them with
gunfire from the ground so it's not at all an easy job to stop someone trying to disrupt an airfield like this.
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 13:59
  #1049 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Maoraigh1 View Post
PAXboy: "The people who have shown themselves utterly unprepared are the Board of Gatwick Airport Ltd. and Chief Operating Officer Chris Woodroofe"

Surely defence is not the responsibility of these civilians. I cannot believe the decision to close was theirs. They are unlikely to have access to security information needed to decide who might be responsible, and their aim.
The Government were unprepared - despite the large spending on defense. And I don't suggest the Opposition would have been different.
(Not and never have been an Aviation Industry person.)
Indeed - but a drone attack for whatever motive was always going to happen. Gatwick is a private company and have now relied on public funds to get them operational again. They could have had a plan and (with govt approval) forms of defence as discussed above, on site.

But? Nothing. It seemed to take them by surprise and it should not have done.
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 14:10
  #1050 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PA28161 View Post
Total ban on sales of these in the UK, and anyone found in possession at airport or or elsewhere face confiscation of the item. It may upset legitimate users but better that than for the inevitable to happen. These things are at least a damn nuisance and at worst downright dangerous in the hands of brainless thick-heads.
Legitimate commercial users will have a PfCO (Permission for Commercial Operations) issued by the CAA as per ANO 2016 and CAP 722, and will have had their remote pilot competence assessed and been made to develop an ops manual as part of the process.
Recreational users on the other hand... legally drones fall under "model aircraft", so you'd have to totally ban sales of all model aircraft. Or come up with a legal definition which distinguishes between "traditional" model aircraft and drones. But then wouldn't you be able to pull pretty much the same stunt with a traditional model aircraft?
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 15:04
  #1051 (permalink)  
 
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The contrast between the media reports on the crowds and confusion at Gatwick, and my own experience as SLF to Belfast on the 21st Dec is amazing. Seeing the press reports of chaos, and expecting trouble, we had made provisional alternative travel arrangements (which would have involved a long drive and a ferry) but the Easyjet app kept saying that our booked flight was expected to leave on time. At the airport there were no crowds of frustrated passengers that we could see, apart from the massed bands of television crew outside. Inside all seemed normal, and even a bit less busy than usual. There were only a few delays shown on the departure board and our flight left pretty much on time, but with some 20 or more empty seats. We saw no sign of the previous 48 hrs of cancellations.
Where had the 'thousands' of waiting and disappointed passengers gone? Where did the television crews get their disappointed travellers to interview? Presumably the empty seats were a result of checked-in passengers not realising the flight would actually take off on time?
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 15:10
  #1052 (permalink)  
 
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The scrotes will need serious protection and a safe house if they are let out on bail.
Unless of course the police have arrested an innocent couple which, given what the man's employer has said, might well be the case.

Gatwick drone: Identities of arrested couple revealed
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...uple-revealed/
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 15:42
  #1053 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hans brinker View Post
I guess it is more of a reference to the standard "a 32 year old male and his 23 year old female accomplice" kind of reporting.
Yup:
Police said they had made two arrests late on Friday, a 47-year-old man and a 54-year-old woman who were from the local area
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 22:09
  #1054 (permalink)  
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Given that they are quite small (couple of foot), can be flying at say 400' at 20 knots
Then why not put up the kind of nets or fine mesh fencing you see around golf courses to stop errant balls from bashing innocent bystanders?

Or at least have helicopters capable of dragging the equivalent of a trawling style fish net?
--------
I've read that jamming is illegal in UK, and that it would be easy to set up a GPS program for the drones to troll the field without external guidance.

Could jamming halt or incapacitate drones following a GPS program?
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 22:20
  #1055 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by OPENDOOR View Post
Unless of course the police have arrested an innocent couple which, given what the man's employer has said, might well be the case.



https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...uple-revealed/
I suggest it would be meet and right to take a more pragmatic view of this until we have a lot more information than we have at this moment in time.
One remembers when the Telegraph reported the news - not simple conjecture like the tabloids.
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 22:56
  #1056 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by visibility3miles View Post
Could jamming halt or incapacitate drones following a GPS program?
How sophisticated a drone are we talking about? Drones have an "Inertial Measurement Unit" which is what they use to stabilize themselves. If you have one of the bigger aerial work drones which are modular and programmable, you could probably fly the thing without a GPS signal or make it execute a "return to base" mission when signal loss occurs. Also there are proper inertial navigation modules now available for drone use, and last I heard someone is also now offering Visual Inertial Odometry in a drone.
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 23:35
  #1057 (permalink)  
 
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Proper inertial navigation is hard to do, particularly on a lightweight platform such as a drone. The location or distance calculated by such a system is produced by integrating speed and acceleration over time, each signal having a significant noise component that needs to be filtered out. The net result is that the errors in the system gradually build over time, leading to steady state error. This is why any inertial platform needs periodically aligned.

Modern drones, like the DJI, use optical flow and visual odometry to determine position alongside GPS. Inertial navigation isn't used as such, the accelerometer and gyro sensors being used for the stability control. For optical flow, cameras capture images of the surrounding environment and motion within that image is estimated to detect global and individual motion vectors that can be used to calculate motion and cues about depth of field.
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 23:36
  #1058 (permalink)  
 
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Yes im a wee bit sceptical as to why they have not been charged YET as well.

Seemed very odd for the boss where the guy works to suggest he was with him whilst the offences took place , something the BBC are now reporting as well.
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 23:51
  #1059 (permalink)  
 
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The scrotes will need serious protection and a safe house if they are let out on bail.
No they won't. Any civilised delayed passenger is going to be getting on with their lives once they get to where they want to be, and that won't be searching Crawley for the "scrotes" that delayed them, unless of course you know of a anti drone group who plan to leave the safety of their keyboards and get the "scrotes." (Sarcasm firmly on)
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 23:59
  #1060 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Navpi View Post
Yes im a wee bit sceptical as to why they have not been charged YET as well.

Seemed very odd for the boss where the guy works to suggest he was with him whilst the offences took place , something the BBC are now reporting as well.
Not sure if there is a PPRuNe embargo on the names of the arrested couple but Heavy.com has a good summary of their online presence and initial coverage in the UK media.
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