Pilot's artificial arm 'became detached while landing plane'
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It's true that parts do fall off planes now WITH certified parts. Can you imagine how many would be falling off if they were rickety parts bought down at the local hardware store.
This incredibly talented pilot deserves his medical, he likely prevented a much worse outcome and deserves a lot of credit.
What I find odd is that the CAA has provisions for pilots with two prosthetic arms. The only difference is that those prosthetic arms have to be constructed to aircraft standards. I view the prosthetic as a very important component in controlling the flight surfaces. About as important as the elevator mechanical linkages and aileron linkages, combined. For the CAA to not care how well a single prosthetic is built just bothers me. A lot. When is it most likely to be stressed by frequent pushing, pulling, twisting, etc. ? During the landing! When there's not a lot of time to implement a personal SOP, especially in adverse weather conditions.
I think I'd feel safer with a pilot who's landing with two prosthetic arms, knowing the clamps and linkages are as reliable as the rest of the plane.
And just to clarify, I view this to have NOTHING, ZERO, NADA to do with a medical, or with people who have a medical degree. It needs attention from mechanical engineers, aerospace engineers, and regulators. This is all about mechanical parts being airworthy.
This incredibly talented pilot deserves his medical, he likely prevented a much worse outcome and deserves a lot of credit.
What I find odd is that the CAA has provisions for pilots with two prosthetic arms. The only difference is that those prosthetic arms have to be constructed to aircraft standards. I view the prosthetic as a very important component in controlling the flight surfaces. About as important as the elevator mechanical linkages and aileron linkages, combined. For the CAA to not care how well a single prosthetic is built just bothers me. A lot. When is it most likely to be stressed by frequent pushing, pulling, twisting, etc. ? During the landing! When there's not a lot of time to implement a personal SOP, especially in adverse weather conditions.
I think I'd feel safer with a pilot who's landing with two prosthetic arms, knowing the clamps and linkages are as reliable as the rest of the plane.
And just to clarify, I view this to have NOTHING, ZERO, NADA to do with a medical, or with people who have a medical degree. It needs attention from mechanical engineers, aerospace engineers, and regulators. This is all about mechanical parts being airworthy.
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No disrespect to anyone but does the CAA Medicals ALLOW disabled individuals to have a current license in ANY form ???
I would have imagined a Second Class certificate yes but First Class to exercise Captain privileges ?
I would have imagined a Second Class certificate yes but First Class to exercise Captain privileges ?
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Anyone
Flew with a guy with a prosthetic leg in commercial jet ops and not only was he a good operator at a base that was challenging in winter, he was a nice guy as well.
Get over it guys
Cool as a moosp
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Yes A330AV8R they do. And if your handle implies you fly commercially then I am astounded that you do not know this.
I refer you back to post 4 of this thread, where the poster kindly gave us all the link to the CAA web site that explains the legislation.
Far smarter medical and engineering minds than seem to appear on this thread have assessed that certain kinds of disability in civil aviation need to be addressed and solved in various ways.The legislation and the CAA medical staff are way more capable than the journalists of the popular press and the frippery of this thread to ensure that the safety of disabled pilots does not compromise any aspect of both civil and private aviation. These legislators continue to provide the levels of safety that is expected under the EASA.
And toaddy, the whole point of the provision for one upper limb amputees to not require their prosthetic to be certified to flight control standards is an attempt to allow the legislator to get out of your hair and allow a medical examiner and the professional pilot to make their assessments. For example, in a failure of a limb case, it is perfectly possible to fly a modern fixed wing two crew operation with three hands.
As a personal note, I have been taught by two single upper arm amputees, and one single leg lower leg amputee in my life, and they were all totally capable of any operation that the aircraft could throw at them.
If they were not, they would not have been able to renew their medical licence.
I refer you back to post 4 of this thread, where the poster kindly gave us all the link to the CAA web site that explains the legislation.
Far smarter medical and engineering minds than seem to appear on this thread have assessed that certain kinds of disability in civil aviation need to be addressed and solved in various ways.The legislation and the CAA medical staff are way more capable than the journalists of the popular press and the frippery of this thread to ensure that the safety of disabled pilots does not compromise any aspect of both civil and private aviation. These legislators continue to provide the levels of safety that is expected under the EASA.
And toaddy, the whole point of the provision for one upper limb amputees to not require their prosthetic to be certified to flight control standards is an attempt to allow the legislator to get out of your hair and allow a medical examiner and the professional pilot to make their assessments. For example, in a failure of a limb case, it is perfectly possible to fly a modern fixed wing two crew operation with three hands.
As a personal note, I have been taught by two single upper arm amputees, and one single leg lower leg amputee in my life, and they were all totally capable of any operation that the aircraft could throw at them.
If they were not, they would not have been able to renew their medical licence.
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A while ago a cockpitfull of various flight deck crew managed to remove parts of a building down in Johannesburgh while taxiing. Afaik all of them had four working limbs.
I also know of a French crew who managed to stall a perfectly fine aircraft right into the middle of the Atlantic. All four limbs working flawlessly until impact.
Sometimes your limbs have nothing to do with the worst of outcomes at all. See those poor Malaysians for reference.
This guy managed to save a landing that could have had a really bad outcome. And he did it with only one arm. That is the way I see it.
I really do hope someone makes a better fastening device for that arm though.
Oh, and regarding certified aircraft parts detatching from the airplane... I just happen to remember that part of a DC-10 cowling was found on the runway after the fatal 2000 Concorde crash. Certified cargo doors and even engines falling off mid flight...
Nah, give the guy a break.
I also know of a French crew who managed to stall a perfectly fine aircraft right into the middle of the Atlantic. All four limbs working flawlessly until impact.
Sometimes your limbs have nothing to do with the worst of outcomes at all. See those poor Malaysians for reference.
This guy managed to save a landing that could have had a really bad outcome. And he did it with only one arm. That is the way I see it.
I really do hope someone makes a better fastening device for that arm though.
Oh, and regarding certified aircraft parts detatching from the airplane... I just happen to remember that part of a DC-10 cowling was found on the runway after the fatal 2000 Concorde crash. Certified cargo doors and even engines falling off mid flight...
Nah, give the guy a break.
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. allow a medical examiner and the professional pilot to make their assessments. For example, in a failure of a limb case, it is perfectly possible to fly a modern fixed wing two crew operation with three hands.
...with three hands ? Fly it yes, landing ? In this case, and in most future cases involving landings, only one hand was available for the landing. This could have been real ugly. It just seems like a risk management issue. The risk is fairly low (1 in 4 pilots) but the consequences are enormous, for such an easy solution of using approved hardware, and not Velcro and clothespins, or whatever the doctor feels like using. The doctor/intern building up the prosthetic probably has no idea that the lives of the passengers and crew aboard a plane may rest on the integtity of that screw, or bolt or pin. They likely assume the worse case to be the person falls or drops a cup of coffee.
Last edited by toaddy; 16th Aug 2014 at 21:49.
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Mr Snuggles
The only piloting judgement I would have questioned was continuing with the landing rather than instigating a go around.
a go around missed approach and taking up the hold to fix the problem would have been a better option than a ham fisted attempt at landing.
When able bodied pilots get it wrong which they do its instant throw away the landing and go around in this case he failed to do that and attempted to land confusing the FO too. Lessons to be learnt yes maybe a better briefing and plan over his unique situation of a false arm which should require a bit of thought in the interaction between the FO and himself
The only piloting judgement I would have questioned was continuing with the landing rather than instigating a go around.
a go around missed approach and taking up the hold to fix the problem would have been a better option than a ham fisted attempt at landing.
When able bodied pilots get it wrong which they do its instant throw away the landing and go around in this case he failed to do that and attempted to land confusing the FO too. Lessons to be learnt yes maybe a better briefing and plan over his unique situation of a false arm which should require a bit of thought in the interaction between the FO and himself
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This guy managed to save a landing that could have had a really bad outcome. And he did it with only one arm. That is the way I see it.
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Fortunately there was no crash.
one day, the story will be different and people will say "oh, we should have done this or that...blablabla"
We can have accident for any reasons (weather, human factors, incapacity etc) but do we have to add a hole in the cheese ?
one day, the story will be different and people will say "oh, we should have done this or that...blablabla"
We can have accident for any reasons (weather, human factors, incapacity etc) but do we have to add a hole in the cheese ?
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So what about the pilots who wear glasses? And if they lose their glasses during a bumpy landing and can't see almost anything during a critical phase of flight? Are we going to ban all pilots who don't achieve a 20/20 eyesight? And the list goes on and on.
Be careful what you wish for.
Be careful what you wish for.
This guy made a hard landing that could have had a really bad outcome. And he caused it. That is the way I see it.
nice guy
Risk assessment if you want. Common sense would tell you that this gentleman should have been assigned to a different role.
With the greatest of respect to the gentleman in question, he'd be better on the long haul roster.
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An aircraft on final hits severe turbulence, only for a short while, he lands without any further "problems".
When asked at what altitude he hit the turbulence, he can't tell, cause his glasses fell off, and he had to find them again in the cockpit.
Would this ban all pilots using glasses from flying?
(By the way, real story)
When asked at what altitude he hit the turbulence, he can't tell, cause his glasses fell off, and he had to find them again in the cockpit.
Would this ban all pilots using glasses from flying?
(By the way, real story)
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This has hit the media for the simple reason that it is different a one armed pilot flying PAX on a commercial basis.
Yes of course able bodied pilots screw up landings but the media attraction was that a pilot with a false arm had that arm detach in the course of landing! Quite a story line.
Of course he should continue flying and as a pilot I support pilots with medical conditions where possible being allowed to continue with their profession
But this is about lessons to be learned from the incident not stopping the poor guy from flying
One which is not unique to this incident and includes able bodied pilots is that if you are not happy with an approach landing then go around and sort the problem in the air and make another approach and landing
The other which maybe unique to this incident is that the FO should be briefed and a plan or course of action should be pre established so that in the unlikely event of this ever happening again each crew member knows their role in the situation and acts accordingly
Pace
Yes of course able bodied pilots screw up landings but the media attraction was that a pilot with a false arm had that arm detach in the course of landing! Quite a story line.
Of course he should continue flying and as a pilot I support pilots with medical conditions where possible being allowed to continue with their profession
But this is about lessons to be learned from the incident not stopping the poor guy from flying
One which is not unique to this incident and includes able bodied pilots is that if you are not happy with an approach landing then go around and sort the problem in the air and make another approach and landing
The other which maybe unique to this incident is that the FO should be briefed and a plan or course of action should be pre established so that in the unlikely event of this ever happening again each crew member knows their role in the situation and acts accordingly
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 17th Aug 2014 at 08:04.
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According to the report, what actually happened was his prosthetic limb became detached from the yoke clamp.
This event highlights many good things about aviation. Firstly, it demonstrates an understanding attitude towards disability. Secondly, we can see we have professionals working within it. This guy dobbed himself in, and that demonstrates a professional attitude towards safety. Thirdly, that the incident was not swept under the carpet. Lastly, that the AAIB investigated this incident and came up with a reasonable conclusion.
What is disappointing is many people's attitude to this event based on what appears to prejudice. I thought we had moved on, but obviously not.
Now I'll defer to the experts. The CAA's medics, the AAIB nor FlyBe's training department consider that this guy is fit to fly public transport aircraft. Therefore, I'm happy to share the sky him, have him fly me and have him fly over my house.
PM
This event highlights many good things about aviation. Firstly, it demonstrates an understanding attitude towards disability. Secondly, we can see we have professionals working within it. This guy dobbed himself in, and that demonstrates a professional attitude towards safety. Thirdly, that the incident was not swept under the carpet. Lastly, that the AAIB investigated this incident and came up with a reasonable conclusion.
What is disappointing is many people's attitude to this event based on what appears to prejudice. I thought we had moved on, but obviously not.
Now I'll defer to the experts. The CAA's medics, the AAIB nor FlyBe's training department consider that this guy is fit to fly public transport aircraft. Therefore, I'm happy to share the sky him, have him fly me and have him fly over my house.
PM
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Just for info this is more than likely something like what he uses. This one is for motorbikes.
The way I read it the bit that failed was the clamp onto the Yoke. The friction clamp lever sprung open. This one because it is semi perm can be bolted to the steering bar.
From an engineering point of view the design in use more than likely had several thousand landings on it with no issues. The event occurred design revisited and in under 10 mins the risk negated with use of a tapered retaining pin through a lug hole.
I think there are 2 engineers in the UK who can sign off mods for disabled pilots but both of them are light aircraft. There was a third but he died a few years back.