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Pilot's artificial arm 'became detached while landing plane'

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Pilot's artificial arm 'became detached while landing plane'

Old 14th Aug 2014, 11:05
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darkbarly,

My sentiments exactly.

Some peolpe should be ashamed of themselves, I do not say this because of your opinion of having pilots flying with prosthetics or any other disability, but because of the way you express that opinion with a complete lack of respect or empathy.
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Old 14th Aug 2014, 11:07
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14th Aug 2014, 08:31 #17 (permalink)
ManaAdaSystem

He obviously had a class one medical, and that must have been granted after careful consideration of his ability to control the aircraft.
The problem is this, he just proved that he can't do that in all situations, so I expect the medical to go bye bye.
How about just getting him a prosthetic arm which won't detach so easily?
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Old 14th Aug 2014, 11:20
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Let's not forget here, with all these flipant remarks, that we are talking about an individual who has my sympathy to have been caught up in a publically discussed scenario.

As a pilot however, I am surprised to hear that these days with an artificial limb you can hold a Class 1 medical and operate a commercial passenger carrying airliner. I am not aware of the intricacies of todays artificial limbs (plainly they are not failsafe) and I can well understand that some people feel uncomfortable with the thought that the pilot of their flight might have one; indeed I would too. In challenging weather conditions it can be quite an art to control an aircraft at TO and landing with four fully functioning limbs let alone with one of them being artificial.

If this person is, as Flybe state, 'senior and trusted' would it not be more appropriate to employ them (should they wish), in a training or managerial roll so complying with the law on equal opportunities?
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Old 14th Aug 2014, 11:22
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I of course have never flown with people who have an obvious disability like this gentleman. I have undoubtedly flown (intentionally or unintentionally) with people who have other disabilities.


1. Those who demonstrated they were generally incompetent and managed to bluff their way through training.


2. Those with " mental" disabilities such as depression.


3. Functioning alcoholics or those with drug dependencies.


4. Cadet types scared to phone in sick who in essence were disabled by sickness.


What do our colleagues really think about us... easy enough to get through a Class 1 medical

Last edited by JosuaNkomo; 14th Aug 2014 at 11:24. Reason: Afterthought
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Old 14th Aug 2014, 11:29
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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JoshuaNKomo - I concur with what you are implying and there are many who undoutably should not be flying but that does not mean that it is necessarily right for anyone with any sort of diability to pilot an aircraft for hire and reward. IMHO
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Old 14th Aug 2014, 11:33
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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For those throwing their hands up in shock horror, may I suggest you read this article about ACM Gus Walker RAF. He used to fly a Meteor 8 with just one good arm.

Pocklington History - Gus Walker

Air Commodore at the age of 30 and continued to fly having an artificial arm with leather loops which he wrapped around the control column. During his 36-year RAF career he rose be Air Chief Marshall and ultimately became a deputy Commander-in-chief of Nato.
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Old 14th Aug 2014, 11:34
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The AAIB report is not the result of an investigation, but a simple statement of the event from the captain. Evidently he handled the situation very well, with one good arm and one good brain and only a few seconds to sort the problem.
Not enough time to hand over to a first officer, whose qualities are not specified.

There was evidently no damage from the heavy landing, and the 47 passengers noticed nothing unusual for a landing on a gusty runway in Northern Ireland.

The captain's eight thousand hours, with 1,871 on type impresses me with his first rate experience and the respect of his employer. Missing a limb does not disqualify you. No doubt the technical problem of the arm attachment will be sorted. Overworked pilots who end up camping in the pilots lounge on lowpaying regional airlines would worry me a lot more than a man who has shown he can deal quickly and sensibly with a technical problem.
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Old 14th Aug 2014, 11:38
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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How many crashes due to pilots missing 'bits", how many due to normal pilot incompetence? This incident ha not increased my worry level.
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Old 14th Aug 2014, 11:38
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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stiglet
I concur with what you are implying and there are many who undoutably should not be flying but that does not mean that it is necessarily right for anyone with any sort of diability to pilot an aircraft for hire and reward. IMHO
So IYHO what would you deem acceptable as a disability to fly public transport aircraft, or do all pilots now have to be 100 % perfect astronaut material, then at the age of 25 be retired.
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Old 14th Aug 2014, 11:47
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Will have a talk someday with the doctor when I have my medical again, what standards apply these days, with what exceptions.


As for this case, this in my book is a nono , would not share the flightdeck with anybody with a disability of this sort, CRM or not. Too dangerous with already before stated "all the other things that can go wrong, often with a cascading effect... Enough other jobs in aviation available for these aviators. I already have problems with collegues wearing glasses, but I guess I tolerate that.
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Old 14th Aug 2014, 11:51
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the challenging conditions
Was it a 'Captain's' approach due to being out of First Officer's limits?

If so, would there have been a suitably qualified pilot in control of the aircraft for the landing in this circumstance with the Captain [technically] incapacitated and the FO out of limits?

I know FOs practice Captain incapacitation drills as a part of their training, but surely it would be prudent for any medical assessment of being 'fit to fly' to be based on the scenario where (in this case) the pilot with the disability must be able to prove he could maintain control if the limb became detached AND the FO was incapacitated/out of limits?

The one overriding factor in all training scenarios (including explosive decompressions, bombs onboard and double engine failures, for example) is that there is ALWAYS a procedure that should ensure a successful outcome in any event. There is NEVER a procedure which does not have a checklist nor an event that does not have a means of achieving a successful result.

We never train to fail.

This situation does it seem, in theory at least, provide the potential for an scenario with no successful outcome.
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Old 14th Aug 2014, 11:54
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I reckon the CAA medics will know more about this pilots disability than anyone on here and have approved the issue of his licence's medical.

Given that they took away my Class 1 for a considerably more trivial medical issue, I'd have complete confidence in that CAA decision and therefore this pilot's abilities.

This is a complete non-issue blown up out of all proportion by the BBC who should know better.
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Old 14th Aug 2014, 11:59
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goudie,
ACM Gus Walker RAF. He used to fly a Meteor 8 with just one good arm.
Just one small difference: Like our one-eyed co-pilot, ACM Walker wasn't flying a civil aircraft with paying passengers on board.

Last edited by Basil; 14th Aug 2014 at 12:05. Reason: Just noticed that previous comments by others have been removed.
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Old 14th Aug 2014, 12:04
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Firstly thank God some peolpe here are not in charge of issuing Class 1 medicals as 80% of us would be out of work by the age of 50!

All in all this was just mechanical failure, fix the problem then move on. Good luck to the chap involved (and if you're reading this thread....don't bother!).
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Old 14th Aug 2014, 12:12
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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The AAIB report is not the result of an investigation, but a simple statement of the event from the captain.
Correct.

And the AAIB is, of course, at liberty to follow up any event brought to its attention with an appropriate level of investigation, ranging from telephone contact with the personnel involved to a full field investigation, and to make any safety recommendations it considers necessary based on its findings.

Clearly it didn't consider that any such action was required in this instance, unless anyone is suggesting that there are additional facts it was not made aware of ?
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Old 14th Aug 2014, 12:13
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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If this captain is who I think it is, he's a very very very good operator who is an asset to any company. Was already flying commercially when he lost his arm in a piston-single-propellor mishap, and went through hell and high water with the CAA to get his class 1 back.

I'd fly with him over 99.99% of able bodied pilots I know, any day.
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Old 14th Aug 2014, 12:23
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This guy knew that his "medical" would be highlighted when he volunteered the report. All the more credit to him. Many pilots wouldn't have the balls to report a heavy landing for fear of a blot on their copy book - but this guy risked losing everything.
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Old 14th Aug 2014, 12:53
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I think he has shown that the CAA medical board were entirely correct issuing him with a class 1 medical. He has clearly demonstrated his ability to land the aircraft safely in challenging conditions with the loss of one arm at a critical phase of flight. I wish him a long & safe career.
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Old 14th Aug 2014, 13:04
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If anyone can be bothered to go back to the first page of this thread, Fostex at reply 4 gave you all a link to the CAA Medical website to a page entitled "Medical Certification of Pilots with a disability.

Under the sub-section "Amputee, Upper Limb" it starts,

"Single upper limb amputations usually represent little problem for certification. Pilots often use a prosthesis which can be clamped to the yoke and in general the prosthesis does not need to be certificated by the CAA, providing that failure of the prosthesis (e.g. falling off the stump) would not result in the pilot losing complete control of the aircraft."

He did not lose complete control of the aircraft. He caught it, the same as if your sweaty hand had slipped on the controls, and I've seen that a few times.

Please read the document before you spout off in the ignorance that has been shown on the first few pages here.
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Old 14th Aug 2014, 13:15
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I admire the pilot and his skills and wish him the best. The only thing I find curious is that while every mechanical piece of the plane has been computer tested for strength, probably of failure, wear characteristics, etc., the most important mechanical device on this plane didn't get the full aerospace engineering scrutiny. If life and death mechanical aids are to be used to interface the pilot to the plane, is there some way to ensure those devices are as good and reliable as the rest of the planes interface devices (yoke, rudder pedals, etc) ? Perhaps some way to certify the clamps and latching devices.

Edit: noticed CNN has this on their front page

Last edited by toaddy; 14th Aug 2014 at 13:57.
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